Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

[Davemc1963]

I have just done a oil & filter channge and thought I'd do a timing check because I haven't done one since I fitted a new MSD distibutor about 12 months ago and thought it should have 'bedded in' by now. When I fitted it, I verified true TDC and it was spot one 1 degree at most which I consider spot on. I strobe checked it, but couldn't locate my timing mark. It is showing about 180 degrees out when I had the strobe on it!!!
The Ty has been starting a little rough and very lumpy for about 20 seconds or so at cold start up, although it cranks fine and starts OK warm/hot. But it does smell a little rich??
I put the strobe pickup on cyl 2 and the timingmarks were visible around say the 5degrees retarded area with the tan/black wire CONNECTED. I didnt try it disconnected.
I obviously need to check true TDC and confirm the balancer mark.
I am using a dial back strobe. could a fault have developed on it? It still seem to function correctly It uses an inductive pickup that 'clamps' around the plug wire It was also connected the correct way round.
Knowing the dampers on SyTy's have their issues, Can/do the timing marks move this much on the balancer in such a small period of time/mileage?
Surely it wouldn't start if it was this far out.
Anyone have any other ideas? (I was definitely on #1 plug wire). Have I missed something obvious here?
Thanks

 

[gkrcr882]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

Did you disconnect the tan wire on the passengers side under the dash?

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

Yes I unplugged the ESC wire when I checked it. I checked it both connected and disconnected. I found the timing mark by pointing the strobe underneath the truck. I know there are two marks and am using the correct 'second' one. I located it by turning the engine over by hand. It just doesn't seem to add up. It ran quite rich with the ESC wire disconnected and the timing was fixed. With the wire reconnected, it advanced as you would expect when I increased the rpm and the idle settled down. Still puzzled!

 

[Don W.]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

At great risk to getting my head blown off, it sounds like you're timing to the wrong cyl. # 1 is front drivers side. You can also time to #4 FWIW (middle pas side).

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

Thanks Don, I wont blow your head off!, thanks for your reply. That is exactly the symptom, maybe I should have worded it that simply. Thats the point I was trying to get across I suppose. I was definitely on #1 plug wire. I put the strobe inpulse wire on several of the other wires, just to try and locate the timing mark in relation to the pointer. It just happened that with the strobe on cyl 2 wire (front passenger side) the timing mark was 'near' the timing pointer where you would have expected cyl 1 to normally be OK it was showing about 5 degrees retarded but pretty near. I had to lie down under the front of the truck and point the strobe at the balancer from the two places either side underneath where you are able to catch sight of the balancer to find out exactly where the timing mark was was when attached to cyl1 (front drivers side wire). I'm not an expert, and not exactly a novice either on vehicle maintenance but can usually tackle most jobs (ECM's and programming are a whole nother subject though!), however I am also not as familiar as others on here with these trucks.
Can the balancer ring slip so much on these trucks balancers? If so, I would have expected it to have had a catastrophic failure. Its integrity looked reasonable, although I only looked at it with the engine running.
I dont know when I will get the opportunity to get the plugs out and do another TDC/balancer check especially with the weather the way it is at the moment.
I may try and borrow another strobe from someone, one without any timing advance dialback feature. Just in case my strobe has thrown a wobble or something. Like I say, I'm sure it wouldnt run so far out of adjustment. and if the outer ring has moved so much, I would expect the damper to be ready to throw its hand in so to speak. (literally).

By The Way --"You can also time to #4 FWIW (middle pas side)"-- I didnt know that, Thanks you learn something new every day!
Dave

 

[STEVECUL8ER]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

I had to lie down under the front of the truck and point the strobe at the balancer .????
Is your timing pointer viewed from underneath the truck??
Usually the pointer is viewed from the top of the truck-drivers side.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

By The Way --"You can also time to #4 FWIW (middle pas side)"-- I didnt know that, Thanks you learn something new every day!
Dave

Thanks for not being insulted. The above is because 1&4 run together, just like 1&6 on an inline 6. On almost all motors you find the cys that run together by writing the FO like this:

(Our motor)

165
432

(Common inline 6)

153
624

Enjoy

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

I had to lie down under the front of the truck and point the strobe at the balancer .????
Is your timing pointer viewed from underneath the truck??
Usually the pointer is viewed from the top of the truck-drivers side.

LOL!
This was to find the timing mark using the strobe. It was not visible from the top. Please re-read the post. When connected to cyl 1, the timing mark was near the bottom ie. six o clock position not around one o clock as you would expect. Just as though as clarified earlier, as if you were checking timing connected to another cylinder plug wire.

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: Timing Check. Balancer Marks Out about 180*

Hi Dave, thanks for your thoughts. I did have the pick up above the #1 cyl. the #3 is about as far from #1 as it gets there. Worth thinking about though. I am hoping to get another look at it this weekend if the weather permits and I'm not working. I dont have a lot of time to spend on it at the moment, so am looking for pointers for when I do have.
I hope its not the wires, they are newish MSD wires fitted last christmas and have not done many miles. I can check the resistances though easily enough and will add that to my list.
I do have a 'economy' Fluid damper that I bought for a 350 chevy V8 that is I think 6.1/4" Od if it turns out the damper is goosed, does anyone know if this will fit OK?
Thanks