Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

[toolmann]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

i wanted a reliable street truck that i could take to the track once or twice a season. after hunting around a few months and talkin to many builders, i went with Waller..he is the guru after all.
he preped/installed vortecs on my motor when he went though it. all forged internals. all porting. 20g. i picked it up in sc and drove it back to boston with no problems. burned little,or no oil. bunch of power at only 10psi.(for 1000 miles). now at 15-17psi its been 8000 miles of dependable,trouble free bliss. just replaced the plugs(autolites out/ngk in) and they were burning perfect. im pleased with the vortecs performance. im sure im not pushing them to their potential at this boost level,but i like to drive my truck,not fix it. soo im faily nice to it. iv owned it 4 years,you could count on 1 hand how many times iv done a boosted launch.
soo far,anyone who wants sum on the street,gets tail lights!
few months ago a beat up lighting got around me,but that dude was out of his mind! thats another story...

there is some minimal vibration due to the cam & solid motor mounts,but its great on the street. it idles good,very subdude... the comps.do make some noise at idle,but not soo much under load.
im trying like hell to get to the track one of these friday nights before it closes but aint made it yet.

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

i wanted a reliable street truck that i could take to the track once or twice a season. after hunting around a few months and talkin to many builders, i went with Waller..he is the guru after all.
he preped/installed vortecs on my motor when he went though it. all forged internals. all porting. 20g. i picked it up in sc and drove it back to boston with no problems. burned little,or no oil. bunch of power at only 10psi.(for 1000 miles). now at 15-17psi its been 8000 miles of dependable,trouble free bliss. just replaced the plugs(autolites out/ngk in) and they were burning perfect. im pleased with the vortecs performance. im sure im not pushing them to their potential at this boost level,but i like to drive my truck,not fix it. soo im faily nice to it. iv owned it 4 years,you could count on 1 hand how many times iv done a boosted launch.
soo far,anyone who wants sum on the street,gets tail lights!
few months ago a beat up lighting got around me,but that dude was out of his mind! thats another story...

there is some minimal vibration due to the cam & solid motor mounts,but its great on the street. it idles good,very subdude... the comps.do make some noise at idle,but not soo much under load.
im trying like hell to get to the track one of these friday nights before it closes but aint made it yet.

I know that Waller is a great mechanic, but I am not able to get the vehicle to him

I also believe that my mechanic is a well versed mechanic, and is the only one that has any knowledge of Typhoons in the Greater Phoenix Area. Plus, he will do it for free. Including all the tuning needed to get the engine running just right.

I am glad to hear all the opinions regarding the Vortec. I may be leaning towards that direction. It just seems to me that messing with something that does not seem "broke" is ill advised.

Of course it is completely possible that this engine cannot handle the mods in it, especially when I increase the boost and run the Ultimate.

I wish I knew now what to expect with the vehicle tuned. If the performance will be mediocre I don't want to waste the mechanic's time and then tell him to install Vortecs and do it all over again. Especially when he is not charging me. I don't want to use him, or anyone, like that.

Any other opinions regarding my present set up and if I should go to Vortecs will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[MRKING]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

I would take full advantage of this freebie if in the end you decide on vortecs and then he charges you . Even if you dont port them or put in bigger valves , at least port match your lower intake to the heads . Non-ported vortecs have had great success as well as the ported .

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

I would take full advantage of this freebie if in the end you decide on vortecs and then he charges you . Even if you dont port them or put in bigger valves , at least port match your lower intake to the heads . Non-ported vortecs have had great success as well as the ported .

What if I have them ported (lower to the heads) and use the same valves, pistons, CAM, rockers, etc. in there now. Would I have a problem with performance and reliability? Also, if I go this route, although the exhaust manifold apparently will work, should that also be upgraded due to the higher flow from the Vortecs?

I am sorry if I am asking too many questions, especially if they are somewhere in these forums. It's just that since 1993 I have had a great admiration for this vehicle even though it has cost me alot in time, money and frustration (The Sy/Ty Mantra!). I just want the current engine to work out and not have to go through all of this again in 5 years but I want as much potential out of this most curent build and still have a reliable streetable vehicle. .

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

You will get the most bennefit from porting the bowl areas (just underneath the valve area) not matching the intake & exhaust ports.
The only reliability problem is if you port too much & get too thin in areas where you can break through water passages.
I would port certain areas of the exhaust manifolds were you can reach w/a porting bit.(long)
Extrude hone is big $$$$$, & you would probably not notice much of a difference.
You will get more benefit from the head swap.
BTW. how much do your stock heads flow?

 

[#2875]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

yea i guess it depends on everyones build. fyi: my 60-1 was definately snappier off throttle before i installed big injectors and put bigger valves in my vortecs. same converter.

Thats not really true . Ported vortecs on a stock turbo , then yeah , but those heads and a larger more equally matched turbo setup will drive as well as the stock setup , if not better . It depends on your complete list of mods to whether or not you need them ported.

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

BTW. how much do your stock heads flow?

I wish I knew!. I am going to contact MACH development directlty to find out. They must have done this, I was just notprovided with the numbers.

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

It appears the advice has tapered a bit. After all the comments, and my owne research, I have decided to go with the Vortec. MACH Development will do the welding and they guarantee their work and my mechanic will do the rest. The existing parts in the head will just be placed into the Vortec.

My decision was primarily based on the fact that my last engines pinged considerably and I ruined my most recent engine due to detonation, and I was running it conservatively with the Ultimate chip. Because of the lower risk of detonation, and the fact that MACH had mentioned to my mechanic that he should use the Vortec heads, but opted not to, I am going for the Vortecs. I hope I am making the right choice as my current engine seems to be doing quite well even without a proper tune or 50# injectors or the Ultimate w/ a 3Bar.

I will keep you all updated and once I find out who to send a check to so I can attach pics, I will do so.

 

[4C FED]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

Looking at Arizona's emmsions testing laws, looks like you live in an area that requires testing prior to registration renewal.
Be aware that the EGR function will no longer work when switching to the Vortec's. You will need to have a plan when it comes time for emssions testing.

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

Looking at Arizona's emmsions testing laws, looks like you live in an area that requires testing prior to registration renewal.
Be aware that the EGR function will no longer work when switching to the Vortec's. You will need to have a plan when it comes time for emssions testing.

Why is that? I know that there are plenty of vehicles in AZ with Vortec engines that pass emmissions. Of course, I would prefer not to have the EGR functioning as I have noticed a slight temporary drop when it kicks in. I will bring it up to my mechanic, but I assume (not a good thing) that he is aware of this issue. He as well as MACH development know that I want a streetable vehicle not purely a track vehicle.

Thanks again.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

The Stock motor uses an internal heads passages for the EGR. The Vortec motor use external exhaust manifold passagedfor the EGR and have no internal passage in the head. Their is no way to easily plum up an external EGR from the exhaust manifold into our internal passage of the intake manifold.

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

The Stock motor uses an internal heads passages for the EGR. The Vortec motor use external exhaust manifold passagedfor the EGR and have no internal passage in the head. Their is no way to easily plum up an external EGR from the exhaust manifold into our internal passage of the intake manifold.

Hmm. So what would be a fix? Again, I hope the people that will be putting this together will be thinking about this, but I will definitely bring it up to them tomorrow.

 

[MRKING]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

In florida they dont do that so I have to ask how they check if your egr is working . I left the egr on my upper intake and you cant tell visually that its not like it should be . How exactly do they test it ?

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

In florida they dont do that so I have to ask how they check if your egr is working . I left the egr on my upper intake and you cant tell visually that its not like it should be . How exactly do they test it ?

They simply just look under the hood. Of course, if it does not pass, they may become more thorough the next time around. Usually each recent year when it has to be inspected (every year since it is an all wheel drive - very lame) I have had my mechanic "adjust" the engine and when the Ultimate was working, put it on the lowest setting to pass emmissions.

So basically, if it is somehow bolted on, I do not think that they will pull it to see if there is vacuum etc. Heck, where it is located now (under the IC) there is now way to pull it without having to take the IC out to reinstall it, so, yes, a long answer to a short question - they just do a visual.

 

[MRKING]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

So basically, if it is somehow bolted on, I do not think that they will pull it to see if there is vacuum etc.

I left the vaccuum line on it as well , so in that situation if they wanted to check for vaccuum it would appear normal if they unhooked it .

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

I left the vaccuum line on it as well , so in that situation if they wanted to check for vaccuum it would appear normal if they unhooked it .

Great. Look, I am all for the environment, but I am running good fuel, keeping the vehicle well maintained and frankly I don't drive the vehicle that much. In fact, this year I have put a total 2,500 miles. Last year, I put in just under 5,000. When I do drive it, I really drive it (unless the kids are in the vehicle) So frankly, the heck with the EGR. Is that so wr :roll: ong??

 

[MRKING]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

Be lucky you get to drive it , I havent put 25 miles on mine in the last 2 years .

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

Be lucky you get to drive it , I havent put 25 miles on mine in the last 2 years .

I must admit that I have been very lucky with this vehicle. Have driven it since mid September 1993. I really enjoy driving it and all the looks I get. I never thought that initially I would like the Green, but I am glad it was the only one left to purchase.

I have always said that there is no sportscar out there that can seat at least 4 people and their luggage and still blow the doors off of most other vehicles and look good doing it!

I hope you get yours working soon so you can enjoy it also.

Thanks for your input. :tup:

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

to test egr function, vacuum is applied with a vacuum pump to test egr operation, the engine will stumble then you know egr function is good. there has been a couple instances that overporting of the stock heads may crack, vortec heads, have improved flow, less prone to detonation, provide a better burn due to cc design = improved fuel mileage dare i say. you will enjoy your new build and get the 3bar map and 50#s on that motor. have js burn you a "break-in type" chip. you will want to have a slightly richer running engine than a leaner. lean = detonation

 

[Monesq]

Re: Should I go for Vortec Heads? Your Opinions will really help!

to test egr function, vacuum is applied with a vacuum pump to test egr operation, the engine will stumble then you know egr function is good. there has been a couple instances that overporting of the stock heads may crack, vortec heads, have improved flow, less prone to detonation, provide a better burn due to cc design = improved fuel mileage dare i say. you will enjoy your new build and get the 3bar map and 50#s on that motor. have js burn you a "break-in type" chip. you will want to have a slightly richer running engine than a leaner. lean = detonation

I don't believe the ADOT testing centers will go to that trouble to test the EGR's (I hope not)

I had my mechanic contact JS re: burning a Prom. JS needed some specs and had questioned the set-up. His questioning brought up the issue of whether I had Vortecs or not. As I pushed my mechanic for answers, he pulled the covers to see the build and sure enough the heads were stock heads, not Vortecs.

There was obviously a miscommunication between my mechanic and MACH Development. MACH is big on high-end racing engines, thus my job to them is not that important. I believe it when my mechanic tells me that he advised them on Vortecs, they just blew it. (They state that they advised him on Vortecs and he said no. That does not make sense to me as he would still make a mark-up profit on the heads, whatever they put in there - there was no Cap on what I was going to spend - just a wide range).

As I suspected, I am glad I am going towards the Vortecs. I was concenred that since the current heads had been ported that they may have thinned out abit and as a result, I would have had a problem sooner rather than later.

I will definitely want JS to burn me a break-in type Prom. I have prepaid for all of this (tunning, chips etc.) so I want the best I can get.

Hopefully JS can give me some input so when this thing is put together, I can have a Prom ready. My 50# and my Ultimate are just sitting around collecting dust! They need to go to work.

BTW, can they test the flow on the Vortec heads without taking the engine out? (probably a stupid question - but I wil ask it anyway).