Transmission Differences Question
- Thread starter paul30
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midnightbluS10
Banned
Re: Transmission Differences Question
This is what Brian Hartman told me back in 2002:
HTH's
This is what Brian Hartman told me back in 2002:
HTH's
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Transmission Differences Question
This is true of the regular 700R4. A SyTy 700R4 is basically a Corvette 700r4 in 4wd configuration with a unique VB, Spacer, & Governor. Some SyTy are missing the heavy duty 3-4 apply ring, though. SyTy do have a unique but weaker output shaft than 4x4 700r4. (its supose to break when abused, but doesn't really, it just fails on high HP builds.)
midnightbluS10 said:
This is true of the regular 700R4. A SyTy 700R4 is basically a Corvette 700r4 in 4wd configuration with a unique VB, Spacer, & Governor. Some SyTy are missing the heavy duty 3-4 apply ring, though. SyTy do have a unique but weaker output shaft than 4x4 700r4. (its supose to break when abused, but doesn't really, it just fails on high HP builds.)
DaveP
Active member
Re: Transmission Differences Question
I've mentioned this in the past, but will bring it up again.
My research (going through my GM parts micro fisches) indicates that the output shaft is unique for 1993 ONLY. There is a specific PN for the output shaft for that year only. The 91 & 92 use the same PN as any other T (4WD) series.
Does anyone know what makes this part different? I've had my 93 for 11 years now, and the trans still hasn't been out of it. I'd really like to know why the different PN?
dgoodhue said:
I've mentioned this in the past, but will bring it up again.
My research (going through my GM parts micro fisches) indicates that the output shaft is unique for 1993 ONLY. There is a specific PN for the output shaft for that year only. The 91 & 92 use the same PN as any other T (4WD) series.
Does anyone know what makes this part different? I've had my 93 for 11 years now, and the trans still hasn't been out of it. I'd really like to know why the different PN?
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transmission Differences Question
There was an "identifier" on the output shaft. Two scribe lines. The shaft is the same as any other 4x4 shaft. These two lines were visible with the trans sitting there in front of you and made it readily recognizable as an HD unit. Well, as HD as a 700/4L60 can be. Even the ATSG guides show the syclone output shaft as being different but just because of the scribe lines. I assure you, it will break at the lube holes just above where the rear ring gear splines on just like any other shaft.
There was an "identifier" on the output shaft. Two scribe lines. The shaft is the same as any other 4x4 shaft. These two lines were visible with the trans sitting there in front of you and made it readily recognizable as an HD unit. Well, as HD as a 700/4L60 can be. Even the ATSG guides show the syclone output shaft as being different but just because of the scribe lines. I assure you, it will break at the lube holes just above where the rear ring gear splines on just like any other shaft.
DaveP6999 said:
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Transmission Differences Question
I don't know about part numbers differences (or could be part mistakes), but I have a 92 Ty output shaft and its different than the 4wd output shaft. (I haven't disabled my 91 Sy Transmission) I think the ATSG manual mentions about the SyTy out put shaft as well.
DaveP6999 said:
I don't know about part numbers differences (or could be part mistakes), but I have a 92 Ty output shaft and its different than the 4wd output shaft. (I haven't disabled my 91 Sy Transmission) I think the ATSG manual mentions about the SyTy out put shaft as well.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Transmission Differences Question
The scribe lines are the only difference. I've had both in my hands and that was it. If you want something really good, get the billet 4x4 shafts offered by PATC or FLP or Rossler. Regardless of the scribe line "difference", they do break.
The scribe lines are the only difference. I've had both in my hands and that was it. If you want something really good, get the billet 4x4 shafts offered by PATC or FLP or Rossler. Regardless of the scribe line "difference", they do break.
DaveP
Active member
Re: Transmission Differences Question
In what way??
I helped a guy last week with an output shaft change as an interim solution for his Sy. We then decided to "save" his genuine LHM, instead, so we had it apart as well. I didn't see ANY difference between the generic T-series, and the LHM 91 shaft, and I looked. This was about an hour apart, not a side-by-side comparison, so.....
Curious, what did you see?
dgoodhue said:
In what way??
I helped a guy last week with an output shaft change as an interim solution for his Sy. We then decided to "save" his genuine LHM, instead, so we had it apart as well. I didn't see ANY difference between the generic T-series, and the LHM 91 shaft, and I looked. This was about an hour apart, not a side-by-side comparison, so.....
Curious, what did you see?
DaveP
Active member
Re: Transmission Differences Question
OK. I have found the "scribe lines" on a 92 Ty trans that is on the floor. Got that covered. I've never noticed that before.
The holes: I saw this on the shafts I was working with last week. The 2 wheel drive had the opposite lube holes. The generic 4 wheel drive had same-side lube holes, and no scribe marks. The above two shafts are still in the bed of my pick-up. I just went and verified. I don't remember what the 91 LHM (Sy) had, for certain.
You say SyTy is same as my generic 4WD that has no scribe marks. I've found a 2WD with "opposites", and you've found a 4WD with "opposites". I'm inclined to believe the "opposites" has more to do with year of production, than application.
So we're back to what George is saying: "Only difference is the scribe marks".
dgoodhue said:
OK. I have found the "scribe lines" on a 92 Ty trans that is on the floor. Got that covered. I've never noticed that before.
The holes: I saw this on the shafts I was working with last week. The 2 wheel drive had the opposite lube holes. The generic 4 wheel drive had same-side lube holes, and no scribe marks. The above two shafts are still in the bed of my pick-up. I just went and verified. I don't remember what the 91 LHM (Sy) had, for certain.
You say SyTy is same as my generic 4WD that has no scribe marks. I've found a 2WD with "opposites", and you've found a 4WD with "opposites". I'm inclined to believe the "opposites" has more to do with year of production, than application.
So we're back to what George is saying: "Only difference is the scribe marks".
jwaller
Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
Re: Transmission Differences Question
the scribe lines are not the only differance between the 4wd and syty shaft.
the oil holes on the 4wd shaft line up. they do NOT line up on the syty shaft. thats why the idiots that made the billete ones copied the wrong one.
holes lined up next to each other is a very bad idea.
the scribe lines are not the only differance between the 4wd and syty shaft.
the oil holes on the 4wd shaft line up. they do NOT line up on the syty shaft. thats why the idiots that made the billete ones copied the wrong one.
holes lined up next to each other is a very bad idea.
DaveP
Active member
Re: Transmission Differences Question
I disagree. Opposite each other is weaker. The load is torsion. Opposite holes EACH interrupt the load path, and the reduction in strength of each hole is CUMULATIVE. Straight across the interruptions are in line with each other.The reduction in strength is that of the biggest hole. Should be appx half as much as two holes of the same size 180Deg opposite. Doesn't mean it still can't be broke.
See Post #10, second paragraph above. It tells where I found a generic 4X4 with 'straight across' holes.
Regards
Dave
jwaller said:
I disagree. Opposite each other is weaker. The load is torsion. Opposite holes EACH interrupt the load path, and the reduction in strength of each hole is CUMULATIVE. Straight across the interruptions are in line with each other.The reduction in strength is that of the biggest hole. Should be appx half as much as two holes of the same size 180Deg opposite. Doesn't mean it still can't be broke.
See Post #10, second paragraph above. It tells where I found a generic 4X4 with 'straight across' holes.
Regards
Dave
jwaller
Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
Re: Transmission Differences Question
I am guessing this is speculation. bc of all the ones I have seen broken it's always the ones where the holes are next to each other. either way Both are weak and should be made of better material if you wish to go fast.
DaveP6999 said:I disagree. Opposite each other is weaker. The load is torsion. Opposite holes EACH interrupt the load path, and the reduction in strength of each hole is CUMULATIVE. Straight across the interruptions are in line with each other.The reduction in strength is that of the biggest hole. Should be appx half as much as two holes of the same size 180Deg opposite. Doesn't mean it still can't be broke.
See Post #10, second paragraph above. It tells where I found a generic 4X4 with 'straight across' holes.
Regards
Dave
I am guessing this is speculation. bc of all the ones I have seen broken it's always the ones where the holes are next to each other. either way Both are weak and should be made of better material if you wish to go fast.
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Transmission Differences Question
Have you ever offered any billet parts with a superior design?
Obviously you're referring to the CK Performance (www.ckperformance.com) 4340 Billet steel 700R4 4WD output shafts. I have one and it's doing great. CK himself told me that NONE of the shafts sold have ever come back with a failure.jwaller said:
Have you ever offered any billet parts with a superior design?
Re: Transmission Differences Help wanted... please!
Re: Transmission Differences Help wanted... please!
Can anyone take a look at the PATC site and give me your opinion on compatability of their "700R4 MEGA Raptor" @ the 5x convertor(3000 stall) and my modded TY? At high Boost it makes 610 h.p. on engine Dyno. Purchased the TY with a bad Trans.(unknowingly) and have been trying to get it on the road for last few months. A tranny shop recommended this Raptor and I bought it. Now... unsure if it will work. Information hard to come by from experienced sources. I know this is asking a lot, but I am now sorely in need of direction on this Transmission. Thanks.....Paul30
Re: Transmission Differences Help wanted... please!
Can anyone take a look at the PATC site and give me your opinion on compatability of their "700R4 MEGA Raptor" @ the 5x convertor(3000 stall) and my modded TY? At high Boost it makes 610 h.p. on engine Dyno. Purchased the TY with a bad Trans.(unknowingly) and have been trying to get it on the road for last few months. A tranny shop recommended this Raptor and I bought it. Now... unsure if it will work. Information hard to come by from experienced sources. I know this is asking a lot, but I am now sorely in need of direction on this Transmission. Thanks.....Paul30
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Transmission Differences Question
If I remember right, the engine is putting down 750+ ft-bls of torque as well. Add in the additional drag of AWD and 3800# Ty, your really pushing the limit of 700R4. The Maga Raptor is going to be a stop gap measure, you need an all out 700r4 build or better yet a 4L80E conversion.
If I remember right, the engine is putting down 750+ ft-bls of torque as well. Add in the additional drag of AWD and 3800# Ty, your really pushing the limit of 700R4. The Maga Raptor is going to be a stop gap measure, you need an all out 700r4 build or better yet a 4L80E conversion.
DaveP
Active member
Re: Transmission Differences Question
Think about it..............
Regards,
Dave
The T-case is AFTER the trans. 4-low would be harder on the output shaft of the T-CASE, but EASIER on the TRANSMISSION output shaft, as the torque load going through the transmission is now reduced because of the gear reduction in the T-case.quicksuv said:
Think about it..............
Regards,
Dave
92AcademyPhooner
New member
Re: Transmission Differences Question
I know this post has been dead for awhile (2008), but is there any thread that you guys know that actually lists the parts that are different?
In my case, i had a great opportunity lined up with TYTILIDIE who was going to rebuild a 700 for me, but i sadly had to pass up on it. So, i will most likely have a shop do it for me.
So, i just mainly want to know the parts (difference) that are specific to my TY (92) trans so it is rebuilt correctly.
FYI, my TY is stock and will probably stay that way for awhile.
Thank you guys. :lol:
I know this post has been dead for awhile (2008), but is there any thread that you guys know that actually lists the parts that are different?
In my case, i had a great opportunity lined up with TYTILIDIE who was going to rebuild a 700 for me, but i sadly had to pass up on it. So, i will most likely have a shop do it for me.
So, i just mainly want to know the parts (difference) that are specific to my TY (92) trans so it is rebuilt correctly.
FYI, my TY is stock and will probably stay that way for awhile.
Thank you guys. :lol: