PTE44 turbo surge

[yudlose]

I have a pte44 with 50's and an ultimate setup. I was running fine with about 18# and I added an alky kit to push a little more through it. I shortened the wastegate actuator to get more boost and all I get is turbo surge from the top of second on - this is still with no alky! I put the actuator rod back to the original position and same thing. I cant get back to where I was with 18# boost. I changed the hose from the turbo to the IC with a one-piece radiator hose and added the nozzle for the alky to the outlet of the IC. I put the stock hose back on thinking this was the problem but the surge is still there although not as bad. I read on the turbobuick board that adding a tornado to the inlet helps surge, so I thought I'd try it, but still no luck. Any other ideas? Has anyone else had this kinda problem with a bigger turbo? ( I'm at 5300' if it matters.)

 

[syclone0209]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

if you have an ultimate, cant you just turn it to a higher setting without adjusting the wastegate rod? and take out that tornado before your turbo eats it. putting a restriction of any kind in the intake tract will not help anything. do you have datamaster or another scan tool.

 

[yudlose]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

The only adjustments that I know of are to fuel and timing. I haven't messed with any of the ultimate settings. The surge is between twelve and fifteen pounds.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

and take out that tornado before your turbo eats it. putting a restriction of any kind in the intake tract will not help anything.

Do a search on Turbo Buick with the key words "surge tornado".

 

[yudlose]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

Any other suggestions for the WOT turbo surge? As I stated earlier, the tornado didn't help. If I undo the cutout, will it help the motor to breathe better and use the excess air or will it exacerbate the situation?

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

Do you have a scan tool or data-master? I was having a similar issue until I noticed I was not getting 100% throttle angle at WOT. Get under the hood and manually floor the throttle all the way to 100%.
When I did this myself I heard a few "clicks" coming from the transmission (TV) cable. The problem was solved
It's worth a try.

 

[yudlose]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

I'm getting 100% throttle opening when the pedal is floored.

I finally ended up lengthening the rod so that the turbo doesn't surge, but now I'm only making 15# whereas before I installed the alky nozzle at the outlet of the IC, I was making 18# no problem!?! Maybe the nozzle is creating a turbulence and not allowing the motor the breathe as much and hence the backup. If this is the case, the first backup is there at the TB. Would a 52mm TB help me utilize the full potential of this turbo?

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

I'm getting 100% throttle opening when the pedal is floored.

I finally ended up lengthening the rod so that the turbo doesn't surge, but now I'm only making 15# whereas before I installed the alky nozzle at the outlet of the IC, I was making 18# no problem!?! Maybe the nozzle is creating a turbulence and not allowing the motor the breathe as much and hence the backup. If this is the case, the first backup is there at the TB. Would a 52mm TB help me utilize the full potential of this turbo?

If you shorten the wastetgate rod your boost will go higher. It sounds like the truck does NOT like higher boost. Which makes me believe you are having ignition break up.What kind of plugs are you using? Stock ignition? HTH with out knowing. Maybe a little drive video to listen.

 

[turbodig]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

The only adjustments that I know of are to fuel and timing. I haven't messed with any of the ultimate settings. The surge is between twelve and fifteen pounds.

A couple of possibilities-

If you're expecting the ultimate chip to control boost well, it won't.
Particularly the 50# versions. Many were never intended to control boost at all.

It's possible that you're having ignition cutout issues.

It's possible the fueling is wrong for the injectors that you have.

 

[yudlose]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

I've been trying to get my laptop to talk to the ECM so that I can see whats going on. I got a new laptop running vista and it wont link up to it!

If you shorten the wastetgate rod your boost will go higher. It sounds like the truck does like higher boost.

How so? When I shorten it, the boost goes up and I get compressor surge. When I lengthen it, it lowers the boost and the truck runs fine.

What kind of plugs are you using? Stock ignition?

I am running NGK UR5 gapped at .030 with a new cap, rotor and Taylor wires. The ignition is stock.

If you're expecting the ultimate chip to control boost well, it won't.
Particularly the 50# versions. Many were never intended to control boost at all.

How should I control it then? Should I bypass the electric boost controller and just hook it up directly to the wastegate?

It's possible that you're having ignition cutout issues.

It doesn't seem like it, but its hard to tell without a diagnostic tool. The turbo sound just like when you let off ( the ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch) except this is at WOT.

t's possible the fueling is wrong for the injectors that you have.

Again, its hard to tell without a diagnostic tool, but this is a chip that was burned by Waller and was running fine before I started turning up the boost.


The truck is no slouch. I haven't taken it to the track, but I did run a 07 Vette from a 35mph roll and stayed a little ahead of him until we shut it down at about 80 or 90. First of all I need datamaster to talk to the ECM so that I can see whats going on. Anyone have any ideas? I also bought an ostrich so that I can custom tune it later, but first I want to figure out why I cant run higher boost levels.

 

[turbodig]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

How so? When I shorten it, the boost goes up and I get compressor surge. When I lengthen it, it lowers the boost and the truck runs fine.

Are you sure you don't have some sort of restriction in the intake? It'd work ok at lower boost, but if you tried more, it'd run in the surge area of the compressor map. Like an intake hose that collapses at WOT...

How should I control it then? Should I bypass the electric boost controller and just hook it up directly to the wastegate?

If the chip isn't programmed specifically for a Garrett-style WG, the chip won't control it.
Your options would be to run on the WG alone (and adjust using the rod), or get some kind of aftermarket controller.

It doesn't seem like it, but its hard to tell without a diagnostic tool. The turbo sound just like when you let off ( the ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch) except this is at WOT.

That does sound like surge, rather than boost control issues. Boost control issues would be more like a roller-coaster up-down-up.

Again, its hard to tell without a diagnostic tool, but this is a chip that was burned by Waller and was running fine before I started turning up the boost.


The truck is no slouch. I haven't taken it to the track, but I did run a 07 Vette from a 35mph roll and stayed a little ahead of him until we shut it down at about 80 or 90. First of all I need datamaster to talk to the ECM so that I can see whats going on. Anyone have any ideas? I also bought an ostrich so that I can custom tune it later, but first I want to figure out why I cant run higher boost levels.

Vista and scan tools have a bad history. Also depends on what type of cable you have, and whether or not you're using a usb adapter.

 

[chelo]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

On the 50 ultimate that i had there was no way of controlling boost. An aftermarket boost controller must be used. Either a low budget manual or an electronic version.

 

[Mario65]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

On the 50 ultimate that i had there was no way of controlling boost. An aftermarket boost controller must be used. Either a low budget manual or an electronic version.

I agree unless the truck is super stock you should use some other controller like a cheap brass valve or something more expensive like a Blitz controller. A braas valve should also help with spool up.

 

[turbomatt]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

i don't post here much, but from my experience with past cars, the turbo is just a garbage in, garbage out machine. i would look into the air filter (dirty, collapsed, too small, autozone special, etc.). otherwise its a tuning descrepency or another from of restriction.

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

I meant does NOT like higher boost.

I've been trying to get my laptop to talk to the ECM so that I can see whats going on. I got a new laptop running vista and it wont link up to it!




How so? When I shorten it, the boost goes up and I get compressor surge. When I lengthen it, it lowers the boost and the truck runs fine.




I am running NGK UR5 gapped at .030 with a new cap, rotor and Taylor wires. The ignition is stock.




How should I control it then? Should I bypass the electric boost controller and just hook it up directly to the wastegate?




It doesn't seem like it, but its hard to tell without a diagnostic tool. The turbo sound just like when you let off ( the ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch) except this is at WOT.




Again, its hard to tell without a diagnostic tool, but this is a chip that was burned by Waller and was running fine before I started turning up the boost.


The truck is no slouch. I haven't taken it to the track, but I did run a 07 Vette from a 35mph roll and stayed a little ahead of him until we shut it down at about 80 or 90. First of all I need datamaster to talk to the ECM so that I can see whats going on. Anyone have any ideas? I also bought an ostrich so that I can custom tune it later, but first I want to figure out why I cant run higher boost levels.

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

I'm having similar issues as far as surging past 10 psi. I able to hit 21 psi but still feels/sound likes ignition break up occurring. I will post a sound clip tomorrow if I get a chance. I've replaced the following items.
1.ignition coil
2.MSD wires
3.ngk plugs gaped at 30 from 28.
4.ECM
5.cap rotor
6.fuel pump relay
All with no luck. going to try new plugs gapped down to 25 tomorrow.
But before I replace the plugs again, I'm going to disconnect the MSD 6AL & run stock ign.

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

MSD checked out okay, no diffrence. I also disconnected BOV & tried a diffrent ECM. Going to install new plugs tomorrow.

 

[yudlose]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

On the 50 ultimate that i had there was no way of controlling boost. An aftermarket boost controller must be used. Either a low budget manual or an electronic version.

I never knew that the ECM didn't control the wastegate! Thats what I get for thinking I know how something works and I assume I know how it works.

So now that I am somewhat enlightened, I stared checking into what a Ultimate chip really does. Wow... I doesn't use the O2 (open loop). So now I hook up the wideband; I've been wanting to do this for a while and while I'm on the right bank, I'll just check the wires while I'm down there messing with the O2... #2 looks good, #4 looks good, # 6 looook....holy !@#$% The wire wasn't in all the way! So I push it in all the way (no snide remarks about this) and voila. I take her for a spin and 20# of detonating boost.

So the moral of the story is to know what your doing by double checking what you think you know to be true.

Now if I can just get the alky to stop blowing fuses and get the Datamaster to talk to the ECM, life would be great!

 

[yudlose]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

Vista and scan tools have a bad history. Also depends on what type of cable you have, and whether or not you're using a usb adapter.

I have the ALDL to serial with an adapter from serial to USB-B female and a regular USB-B male to USB-A male cable.

Is this a problem or should I scrap Vista and load XP as my OS?

 

[turbodig]

Re: PTE44 turbo surge

I have the ALDL to serial with an adapter from serial to USB-B female and a regular USB-B male to USB-A male cable.

Is this a problem or should I scrap Vista and load XP as my OS?

Bad USB to serial adapter, I'd almost bet on it.

I have a couple USB-serial adapters that won't link.

Use one of the dedicated USB-Serial cables.. Moates or the aldlcables one. Barring that, you'll be searching high and low for a serial adapter that works.

The Vista -> XP swap will be a good thing for you no matter what you do with a cable.