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Thread: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end
  1. #151
    Serious about performance Tooky's Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Thanks dude! This update is late because it took me a few days to "recover" after what felt like a marathon wrench-a-thon, and I knew this would be the biggest one yet!!

  2. #152
    Combating adversyty. Quickstop [UK]'s Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    my lower is at RPM and my shipment is almost ready to leave the docks!

    Apart from the harmonic balancer bolt and the washer, what else will I need? I am intrigued by the belt tensioner being u/s.

    Is that from the alternator drive belt? Why does it break? Guess I need one as well now?

  3. #153
    Serious about performance Tooky's Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    I don't know, I wasted 2 hours trying to reassemble it and the big black spring inside to no avail, and that was after I carefully cleaned, masked, and painted the damn thing. The GM dealer said it's kind of a press fit and they come apart all the time when they repair customer's cars and they have to be replaced if that happens. So it cost me about $45 from GM.

    As far as what else you'll need, I still plan to come up with a total parts/cost list, give me a few days on that.

  4. #154
    Combating adversyty. Quickstop [UK]'s Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    thanks mate - found me the perfect place to reassemble it when I get back from Afghanistan!!!

    Any extra parts I casn order before I get started will help me so much. I haven't got the ability to pop into the parts stores like you guys can!

    If there is anything that you don't need that I can use then let me know and I can paypal you as well

    cheers,

    Mark

  5. #155
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Good info and progress, Josh
    Dave
    Sy #2661

  6. #156
    Super Member turbodig's Avatar
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    Re: 1st Testing with BOOST!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooky
    mostly fixed now. But I found it's developed a terrible false knock problem again (different than the one that plagued me ~2001-2003). I'll just be cruising on the freeway at 70MPH with the cruise control on, and suddenly it will knock 2...5....10...12* knock, and then it'll sit around 8* like there's a constant noise or something setting it off.. and when I kill the gas, the knock drops to 0*. But it doesn't knock much at WOT?? (typically 0-3* with 15 PSI and 16* timing) It does "knock" enough at WOT to make it very difficult to tune right now since I can't trust all the readings.

    Couple of questions about your knock....

    Did you use the Comp 33xx series lobes?
    Does it happen around 1200-1900 RPM?

    Curious...
    Dig
    11.94@114- 100% stock motor, 20G, 9/11.
    Built Motor, L35s, cam.... ?

  7. #157
    lost marbles member NecroWolf's Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    you're making me want to put vortecs on my truck, even though i have pontiacs at the house waiting. very good info on this thread, maybe i'll sell my pontiacs and single plane intake and switch to vortecs, to keep the cost down
    93 Typhoon #1110 -- exorcism pending
    Garry, Killeen Texas

    I will get a 10.xx second 1/4 out of this build or set the record for the most exploded drive train in one pass.

  8. #158
    Super Member TYHOGG's Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Tooky - is there any reason you decided to go with the Victor Gaskets instead of the Cometics?
    93' Ty #2187 green/gray
    2007 TBSS 3ss
    95 Camaro Z28 6-speed
    So I tell the swampdonkey to sock it before I give her a trunky in the tradesman's entrance and I have her lick me yardballs.

  9. #159
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTyGuy
    Tooky - is there any reason you decided to go with the Victor Gaskets instead of the Cometics?
    The Cometics should have the block decked. The down side of the Victor Gaskets is they are supose to be retorque within so many miles.
    Dave
    Sy #2661

  10. #160
    70's Veteran SY2455's Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Has anyone use Fel-Pro Pema Torque Blue Head Gaskets?
    Those who would DISRESPECT OUR FLAG, Have never been handed A FOLDED ONE.

    1991 GMC Syclone, 2004 Pontiac GTO 6 speed (sweetheart's car), 1970 Olds 442 W-30

  11. #161
    Serious about performance Tooky's Avatar
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    Re: 1st Testing with BOOST!

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodig
    Couple of questions about your knock....

    Did you use the Comp 33xx series lobes?
    Does it happen around 1200-1900 RPM?

    Curious...
    Nope, I wanted the XFI lobes, the 33xx are the Xtreme Energy Lobes. The XFI (30xx) lobes also are "designed" for the beehive springs, whatever that means..

    It does seem mostly around that RPM. I searched and found a trick Michael Hood mentioned, bumping the knock retard minimum RPM up from 1800 to 2800. So far it's working really well but I just smoked a brake pad down to the rotor and while I got that all apart, I'm gonna reach in by the knock sensor and insulate anything else I can find. Back in 2001-2004 I was plagued by terrible false knock and I'm 99% convinced it ultimately was resolved when I insulated the tranny line near the bellhousing/knock sensor with a rubber bike tube (when I R&R'ed the trans the 1st time).

  12. #162
    Serious about performance Tooky's Avatar
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTyGuy
    Tooky - is there any reason you decided to go with the Victor Gaskets instead of the Cometics?
    Yes I have both sets, it was a tossup but ultimately I decided to go Victor because the stock ones worked so well for me (up to 30+ PSI boost on a spike and 26 PSI max sustained), and because I was afraid I couldn't hand-scrape the deck to meet the Cometic's strict 50RA smoothness standard. I asked everyone I could find (local racers, machinists, etc.) about Cometics and pretty much everyone could recall a scenario where they leaked water on someone's car. So I'll save the Cometics for when I can deck the block.

    Although, Wes with the stock bottom end Typhoon (www.fivaxis.com/typhoon/) used Cometics on a stock block and had no problems.

    As far as retorquing the Victors, what is the source of this information? The service manual doesn't mention a retorque, and I also doubt they were retorqued from the factory, yet mine held well. That being said, if I have to pull the exh. manifolds, I'll check the torque anyways and retorque if any of the "easy" ones turn out loose.
    Last edited by Tooky; 10-29-2007 at 05:44 AM.

  13. #163
    Serious about performance Tooky's Avatar
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    Talking High Boost Testing!!

    High Boost Testing!!!

    I can definitely testify to the fact that these heads and cam do allow you to run more boost on pump gas........but just a little, maybe 2-3 PSI more. I think I was able to run ~18 PSI with areas of 0.0 knock now on pure 93 octane. I CERTAINLY am not able to run any significant amount more timing than I could with my stock heads. And neither could the only other vortec-headed truck I tuned personally..... Do I believe vortecs "greatly reduce detonation"? Not really. Not in the sense that, if your truck was knocking on stock heads, it ain't gonna be magically fixed with vortecs. I just haven't seen the evidence.

    After getting the WOT AFR close to flat around 11.0-11.4 I decided to step it up and turn on the (SMC dual nozzle) alcohol injection system and start leaning out the top end and adding boost.

    Man, this thing is freakin' awesome!! The PT51 turbo hits so hard now, it will squeal the tires from a 10-15mph roll!! And these tires (stock rims) got me a best 1.630 60' so it's not like they are some tight sidewall 18" that turn over easy, either! When you floor it now, you gotta have both hands tight on the wheel and keep it straight because the front (and rear) tires want to make it skate all over. I think this is "the Syclone dance" the foreign SyTy owners talk about.

    Gave a handful of people rides already, if you give it even 3 PSI on a launch, it will burn the tires all the way through 1st and into 2nd (never did that before!) The boost just hits so hard, I think people who seriously over-turbo their engines are making a huge mistake, it's so much more FUN when you can get full boost at half throttle!

    On the flip side, I might be starting to feel the drawback of the small turbo. I get 21 PSI on the spoolup spike, but by 5400 RPM it's down to 16.0 PSI!! My boost control used to be within 1-2 PSI, now it's just garbage. I ported the wastegate somewhat conservatively after TurboTony warned me that too much porting can cause the wastegate to open on it's own. That's kind of how the boost is responding, at high RPM it's opening too much. Or maybe the turbo is just out of flow? My DM dynos hit a new all time high of ~585 HP (720 LB-FT torque!), right what the PT51 is rated at. Is boost dropping at high RPM a sign of a too-small turbo? I tried adjusting the wastegate rod tighter but it doesn't seem to be helping. Even though the boost is fluctuating +/- 5 PSI, my AFRs are tuned flat to 10.9-11.4.

    I ran through a gallon of methanol already. This project feels like such a success at this point, that I broke out the $50/750mL single malt "Cask Strength" scotch
    I was giving a friend a ride today and on a launch it hazed the tires and then BOOM! The engine went silent and I thought that was all she wrote. My heart stopped and I looked at the tach and I thought it was dead. Then I realized it was still at 900 RPM, and I just blew an intercooler hose off my (inadequate) 2nd alky nozzle mount. I fixed it but I realized that with 250 miles on this build, I already had enough fun to make it worth it if it lets go tomorrow.

    Timeslips Soon.....?
    I also wore an LS1 brake pad down to nothing so I'm doing a brake job today (are ceramic pads good for street/strip?), and the dragstrip is open on Tuesday for the last weekday of the year... I'm gonna try and make it so I can finally get a timeslip faster than the 11.79 I ran in ..................2003!!
    Josh Straub, Syclone #0044.
    My tuning/tech how-to DIY site: www.PowerTunePlus.com - Learn how to make your truck Fast for Cheap!

    Vortec heads/218* cam 11/10/07: 11.45 @ 117.7 17-20 PSI [timeslip] Vortec Install Thread, 100+ Photos

    * DIY Vortec heads/cam upgrade Budget & Parts List ($1,504)
    * 11.45 @ 117 COMPLETE Budget & Parts List (Every part on my truck! = $8,600)

    ** signature size violation - text removed **

  14. #164
    i'm no homo
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    this is on a stock bottom end right? also can you shoot me some part numbers for the stuff you put into your heads?
    I made it, full circle! Back to step one! The search is on.

  15. #165
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    Re: Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install on stock bottom end

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooky
    As far as retorquing the Victors, what is the source of this information? The service manual doesn't mention a retorque, and I also doubt they were retorqued from the factory, yet mine held well. That being said, if I have to pull the exh. manifolds, I'll check the torque anyways and retorque if any of the "easy" ones turn out loose.
    I am just going by what I read, this thread is basically why I though the stock head gaskets need to be retorqued.

    http://www.syty.net/forums/showthrea...=15&highlight=
    Dave
    Sy #2661

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