23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

[Jetmugg]

Hi guys - long time lurker, first time poster with a question about a set of older 23 degree Bowtie aluminum heads.

I have access to a set of these heads (GM part# 14044802, casting # 14011053), and I'm wondering if these are a good choice for use in a Sy/Ty application. These are bare heads - is it worthwhile to build these into a complete set of heads, or is it a better choice just to buy a set of Vortecs?

It is my understanding that at one time, these heads were fairly desirable for use in Sy/Ty applications, but don't know if that is still the case, considering the more widespread use of later model "Vortec" heads.

The "Coolness" factor of Aluminum heads cannot be denied, but are these heads really worth using?

Thanks,

SteveM

 

[MRKING]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

I'd say it's not worth it , but your trucks goal should be the biggest factor . How fast and how much money are you looking to spend ?

 

[turbodig]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

If you're talking about a stock block, I'd check to see what the bore diameter of the heads (head gasket ring) is. If it's greater than 4.060, you won't be able to use them without getting questionable on cylinder wall integrity.

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

The heads are intended for use with 4.00 or greater bore diameters according to the GM Performance Parts literature. They should work with a stock block and intake. The fact that they have angle plugs means that custom headers would be necessary, but I believe others have used these heads successfully.

Right now, I'm just trying to figure out what to do with these heads, and if they are useful in a Syclone application.

SteveM

 

[red typhoon]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

the problem is .that if you spend money on head and your bottom is stock it not worth it if you are going billet crank vortec block lot of power then yes it all depends on $$$$$$.

 

[V6 Kompressor]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

The heads are intended for use with 4.00 or greater bore diameters according to the GM Performance Parts literature. They should work with a stock block and intake. The fact that they have angle plugs means that custom headers would be necessary, but I believe others have used these heads successfully.

Right now, I'm just trying to figure out what to do with these heads, and if they are useful in a Syclone application.

SteveM

I don't believe they will work with stock sy/ty intake without moding it. I had a nice set of darts that was going to take some work, wasn't goint to be worth the cash outlay plus the tuning time, for my goals... but i have other toys to go fast.

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

I know that there are several generations of the Bowtie heads available, and as far as I know, these are one of the first generation. These are the closest to "stock" configuration, insofar as they do not have raised runners, they are not 18 degree, don't need shaft rockers, etc.

Off the top of your head, does anyone know the stock combustion chamber cc's and valve sizes for stock cast iron heads? These heads are 61cc, and use 2.02" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves.

 

[MRKING]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

I dont know the chamber size but do know the stock intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds will not just bolt up . By the time you have the heads machined and assembled , then ported , plus the new headers , new intake that will more than likely need to converted to fuel injection , and what ever fab work still needed with moving around the intercooler/ turbo pipes youll see it adds up quick .

If you went with a set of vortecs on a stock modded intake , i have some twin turbo headers that would fit nicely if you want to run a pair of small turbos . Whats the rest of your build going to consist of ?

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

I'm still learning about the Sy/Ty engines. Please take a look at this pic to see if the intake bolt pattern looks like what is needed for a Sy/Ty intake.

Thanks,

Steve.

 

[Try Me]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

If they are not raised runner and stock valve angle then I dont see why the stock intake wouldnt work.

Even if they flow the same as a set of worked vortecs, they would be better since aluminum dispurses heat much quicker. You can run more timing/boost without as much risk of detonation. Not to mention the weight difference. ( done stating obvious :tup: )

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

Thanks. These are not raised runner heads. There were raised runner 23 degree heads available "back in the day", but these are standard location for the runners. As far as I can determine, the only stumbling block would be the angled plug locations.

I was actually planning to use these heads for a V6 Chevy II project, but that project is pretty much dead now.

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

According to old posts here, they should bolt up with headers being the only obstacle. IIRC, Mike Lee at Race Proven Motors can make those, now.

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

Excellent information. That pretty much confirms what I thought about the heads bolting up to the stock intake.

I know that the different versions of what people commonly call the "Bowtie" heads can be confusing.

I wonder if that guy is still looking for the old GM Performance Parts catalog? I have a '94 edition sitting in my desk drawer right now. (and 3 cylinder heads on the shelf)

SteveM.

 

[Synister]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

Dont you have to run an offset rocker arm or something goofy on these heads also? I'm also not sure if it was just the 18° heads but I thought the combustion chamber was around 43cc's. I had those crane offset rockers on a set of LTX Canfield heads and they can get pretty expensive. I'm all for part coolness and doing something a little different but for what you will probably have into getting those heads on your engine you could probably get a nice set of vortecs for less than half including machine work to you intake.

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

The heads I have (GM part# 14044802, casting # 14011053) have 61cc combustion chambers. I'm not sure what the factory iron heads have for cc values. These heads use standard geometry rockers as well, with regular 3/8" screw in studs and standard GM "small block" style guide plates.

Bowtie heads can get confusing, as there are several generations of heads. The part#'s and casting #'s usually tell the tale. These are the most "standard" of the bunch, mainly differing from the stock heads in that they have angled plugs, valve size, and possibly CC. There are other heads with raised runners which need special intakes, then there are the 18 degree heads, the Pontiac heads, and the Brodix heads, each of which has their own set of challenges due to rocker geometry.

I originally bought these heads to use on a '63 Nova V6 project, with the dream of installing a Sy/Ty type turbo system on it. Now the Nova project is pretty much dead, and I'm trying to figure out where these heads can best be used.

 

[tylex]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

I like those heads!Where can i get em?Think my atr headers would fit too.

 

[1BADV6]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

I like those heads!Where can i get em?Think my atr headers would fit too.

I have these heads and the ATR headers did not fit, the number 2 plug was too close to the collector. I went with angle plug headers from RPM.

 

[Jetmugg]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

Dave:
Are you using these same heads (same part#), and are you happy with them? Were you able to use a stock intake? As I mentioned earlier, I was planning to use them on a V6 Nova, but the Nova is going bye-bye. I had a set of G-body 4.3 headers that I cut apart and was re-building into a set that would clear the angled plugs. "In theory" everything was going to work out with an Edelbrock 2111 intake and these customized headers - I had it all mocked up, but just recently sold the car.

Steve.

 

[1BADV6]

Re: 23 degree "Bowtie" Aluminum Heads a good choice?

Steve,

My bowtie motor is still on the stand, I used a stock lower that was modified in much the same way as a Vortec conversion with the material added above the ports. If you already have the heads I would use them. Headers will be your only concern, either RPM angle plug headers or Kenne Bell headers will work. I used standard stud mounted roller rockers with modified guide plates.

thanks,