Those crazy evo/dsm's

[Grimgrak]

Wow i'm going to think twice about running one on the street. Here are 3 examples of 93 octane no meth 135-140mph trapping evo's. What would it take to get our truck up to this level? Whats the max pump gas the syclone v6's Bowtie or otherwise have made?


http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=343402

Scary part is these are mustang dyno #'s.

 

[kessler]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

you also have to look at the weight to power ratio that there making out with compared to ours. I had a first gen Talon that rans its best of a 10.88 at 134mph. Im sorry but our trucks will never see that type of a MPH with that time. IMO

 

[R&C_RallySyTy]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

you also have to look at the weight to power ratio that there making out with compared to ours. I had a first gen Talon that rans its best of a 10.88 at 134mph. Im sorry but our trucks will never see that type of a MPH with that time. IMO

^ I have to agree. On avg. our trucks weigh in about 350-450 more then what those Evos were. They also cut through the air alot better then our boxes.

 

[H-TOWN-TYPHOON]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

they might be faster, but I've never heard of this happening to a syty (yet)

for the last couple of weeks, every time I think about an evo I see this pic in my head

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=337807

 

[cloneman315]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

the old school talons can run in the 20 psi range on pump gas and they can get out of the hole just as good as a syty,you must be carefull with them dsm s

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

For the last month I've been going to the track with a few buddies. every, single evo has broke. They might have ran low 11's mid 10's a few times, but then they broke. And I mean ALL of them. I had a friend who owned a Evo 7. He spent so much money on that car to make it run 10's. I'm talking double what my builds costing me, and I'm going bowtie heads with a carb style intake. Our trucks might cost some money, but not when you consider how often I've seen Evo's break. :dunno:

 

[R&C_RallySyTy]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

I don't care what kind of car or truck you have. You run those kind of times and its something you have to keep up with daily. Of course I'm a GM fan and I love owning a Sy because of how rare they are. People who know alot about cars always ask me about mine. Those who think its a S-10 with exhaust get raped on the street lol

I have to admit though, I have a friend who has a quick Evo and it has yet to have problems.

 

[Luke]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

i wonder what breaks more, DSM or SyTy ???

i know all of our trucks love those jack stands

 

[Raist103]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

a friend around the corner of me just made 500awhp on meth and 30psi. stock short block and head but has cams and runs low 11s has not had one issue with the car since new. it is a mr evo not sure of the year but newer one like a 06 or so with the 6spd.

 

[Maverick87]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

I may not mph with them but they wont et with me. I aint scared!!!

 

[R&C_RallySyTy]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

For 17 year old trucks, we can't complain...

 

[Tooky]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

Time to shed some light on this. I get really annoyed whenever I see extraordinary claims posted with no specifics, so I did some research.

Reality #1.
David Buschur (head of the shop who built all 3 of these 550whp Evos): "A build like this if you have a bone stock EVO would be around $25,000 from start to finish, all the best parts, labor and tuning."

Reality #2. They are revving to 8000-8500 RPM. Look at the dyno sheet and it doesn't even spool up until 5000 RPM (most SyTys' redline and shift around here!) That's a damn big difference.

Reality #3. The shop (Buschur Racing) is not interested in helping anyone make their own car fast - just interested in doing business with customers. Case in point: "dave i know you like to keep things to a minimum and secret. but any chance of you posting a timing map on one of these 500+30psi pump gas maps???"

His response: "Not only no but **** no on the timing maps." :roll: :tdown:


So what is the purpose of his posts? To drum up more business for his $25,000 builds? To brag and rub it in the nose of slower cars?


Anyway, 8500 RPM, the small displacement (the small bore especially), race ported 4 valve head, and cams are what are largely responsible for allowing such high boost on pump gas. The static compression ratio also plays a factor. World of difference here comparing these motors to a 4.3 V6.

 

[R&C_RallySyTy]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

Time to shed some light on this. I get really annoyed whenever I see extraordinary claims posted with no specifics, so I did some research.

Reality #1.
David Buschur (head of the shop who built all 3 of these 550whp Evos): "A build like this if you have a bone stock EVO would be around $25,000 from start to finish, all the best parts, labor and tuning."

Reality #2. They are revving to 8000-8500 RPM. Look at the dyno sheet and it doesn't even spool up until 5000 RPM (most SyTys' redline and shift around here!) That's a damn big difference.

Reality #3. The shop (Buschur Racing) is not interested in helping anyone make their own car fast - just interested in doing business with customers. Case in point: "dave i know you like to keep things to a minimum and secret. but any chance of you posting a timing map on one of these 500+30psi pump gas maps???"

His response: "Not only no but **** no on the timing maps." :roll: :tdown:


So what is the purpose of his posts? To drum up more business for his $25,000 builds? To brag and rub it in the nose of slower cars?


Anyway, 8500 RPM, the small displacement (the small bore especially), race ported 4 valve head, and cams are what are largely responsible for allowing such high boost on pump gas. The static compression ratio also plays a factor. World of difference here comparing these motors to a 4.3 V6.

I have not been here long, but are you a GMC SyTy God? Sure seems like it, way to shed light to the thread. You my friend have hit the nail on the head. A matter of fact, my Sy shifts at 5200 and ran 11s. I'm going to send you a PM about something.

 

[Raist103]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

yeah my friend runs a much higher rpm over stock as well. he also has a fast sy and have seen both cars. 100% sure he makes the 500rwhp and has stock short block and has no where near 25k into it.

 

[syclone3]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

Josh. Dave Buschur is a friend of mine dating back to 1991. Before the DSM business even started. Today he is one of the premier shops in the country. Along with that come all the hate mail and posts, mathmatical deductions to deduce what he has accomplished to a lower common denominator to equal some other car or truck. Not everyone wants to own a GM vehicle or any other domestic brand which is undoubtedly cheaper to build to an equal or faster level. I hear it all the time at my dyno shop. " Why do you kids build such expensive cars?" We all can't drive the same vehicles. Do we all eat and drink the same food or beverage?
What they have accomplished is technology at work. Why not make a 2.0 produce 550 WHP and run that fast? There are plus and minus points to any project.
I especially find it humerous that people constantly remark they see a DSM or EVO and its always broken. Can't speak for all cases but the MAJORITY are driver error. Its not easy to finese and shift a car like this down the track. Its really easy to drive an AT like any of the GM vehicles.
Unless you have experience with a 5 spd import of any sort. Not fair to make a blanket statement that at your local track all you saw was carnage. That may be true. But its not the norm.
Over the years I have had 15 different DSM's. Also have three EVO's currently. Four Syclones and a Typhoon. Seen a lot over the years. Made about 700-800 1/4 passes with the Mitsu powered cars and 250-300 with the Syclones. They are not easily compared except the time from point A to B. Its like comparing a Thai hooker to a US breed China hooker. Similar but not the same.
Its not cheap today to build a Syclone or Typhoon to a reliable 9 second platform. Its doable and many start out with projects headed in that direction. Biggest drawback to the EVO is its initial purchase cost. Then add in the $25,000 build. Some may say go buy a real exotic instead. But many like to be the underdog and win with the smaller motor.
Only two of my EVO's make 400 WHP. Not sure what they run at the track, never ran them. Only have one DSM left and its a drag car that makes 500 WHP. But is 2450 pounds. It simply is my hobby car thats fun to work on. Total project has maybe $10,000 in it.

If I was out prowling the streets and saw an EVO or DSM. You take the race with a grain of salt. The cars are capable. But who knows how well it was put together how well its driven.

Anyone catch the rash of EVO's on Pass Time on Speed. Some were in AZ the others in FLA. When they quoted their hp levels and then you saw the times. I would be embarrased as an EVO owner if thats all I could run with it. Course that same scenario plays out with any brand thats modded.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

crank walk owns you

 

[SloGN]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

well guys i have a 1st gen eagle talon that i have spent 900 bucks in mods and i have made almost 300 hp @ the wheels on pump gas @ 15-16 psi of boost. My next move is to get rid of the stock downpipe so i can turn the boost up to the 20-21 psi range without having a crapload of backpressure killing it int he tiop end of the rpm range. My powerband seems to bo pretty much flat lined from 3k to 7500. The is a stock motor that still has the balance shafts and also it has 158k on it as well. they are tough little motors as i beat the crap out of it. but having almost 300 wheel hp in a FWD car is it kills the tires @ speeds less than 35-40 mph.

 

[Grimgrak]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

I dont know about that these trucks are far from reliable. I hope to change that with a 4l80e/fully built block/crank/stroker and a 72mm turbo. The reason you dont see many of these trucks breaking is because there simply arn't that many of them out there. Of the ones out there how many can run the times these evo's do and out of that how many break?


My build is costing me in the alot more than 25k so bang for the buck the evo is still a better deal as i see it. (campbell automotive vs buscher is a fairly good comparison they are both well known tuners of their respected platforms)

For the last month I've been going to the track with a few buddies. every, single evo has broke. They might have ran low 11's mid 10's a few times, but then they broke. And I mean ALL of them. I had a friend who owned a Evo 7. He spent so much money on that car to make it run 10's. I'm talking double what my builds costing me, and I'm going bowtie heads with a carb style intake. Our trucks might cost some money, but not when you consider how often I've seen Evo's break. :dunno:

 

[The Devils Own Chariot]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

For the last month I've been going to the track with a few buddies. every, single evo has broke. They might have ran low 11's mid 10's a few times, but then they broke. And I mean ALL of them. I had a friend who owned a Evo 7. He spent so much money on that car to make it run 10's. I'm talking double what my builds costing me, and I'm going bowtie heads with a carb style intake. Our trucks might cost some money, but not when you consider how often I've seen Evo's break. :dunno:

True that. Mitsubishi is shit. I had a 98 Eclipse GSX and that thing sucked. Then I hear about how fast these local Evos are they go to the track and break every time. This guy had an Evo 7 and then broke it on the 3rd pass. Im just glad the only thing Mitsubishi on our trucks are the turbos. Even those suck :rotf: I hate my wastegate :rant:

 

[typhoon92]

Re: Those crazy evo/dsm's

Only have one DSM left and its a drag car that makes 500 WHP. But is 2450 pounds. It simply is my hobby car thats fun to work on. Total project has maybe $10,000 in it.

What all do you have into your DSM? I have two DSM's sitting in my garage that i'm working on rebuilding the motors in both of them. One of them will be a full drag car (91 Talon AWD 5spd) and the other one will be my wifes daily driver (92 talon AWD Auto).