15psi = 15* right?

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
my ty is running a lil sluggish and is only getting 11.8mpg with mostly freeway driving... I hooked up DM and did a couple WOT blasts down a back road and it's even worse at WOT. I'm pretty much getting 1* for every psi of boost. I know the gas here in cali is pretty watered down, but this is kinda ridiculous. 100oct this thing ran like a beast... 91 it runs awful. I just pulled the spark plugs to see whats going on and I got this on #6
923470_1357727551032414_1887527077_n.jpg


and the rest pretty much look like this...
934855_1357727557699080_143602010_n.jpg


there's probably about... 350miles on these plugs. #6 looks like it's got 35k on it.

They're gapped to .032 now, I was gonna give .028 a shot and see if there's any difference. But what's causing the abuse on 6? Bad wire? Clogged injector?
 

Jimmy

Banned
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

#6 looks lean.Prolly pulling timing because lean.

It should be advancing timing in boost,not pulling it.
 

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

thanks for the heads up JImmy... I just went back and looked through the plugs again and 2, 4, 6 (the worst) are all a lil darker than 1, 3, 5... kinda weird that it's just on one side of the motor. I'm gonna regap to .028 and bump the fuel psi up a lil bit and see what happens. I could toss a lil mystery oil in the tank, but I've never once seen any difference using that crap.
 

Jimmy

Banned
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

thanks for the heads up JImmy... I just went back and looked through the plugs again and 2, 4, 6 (the worst) are all a lil darker than 1, 3, 5... kinda weird that it's just on one side of the motor. I'm gonna regap to .028 and bump the fuel psi up a lil bit and see what happens. I could toss a lil mystery oil in the tank, but I've never once seen any difference using that crap.

Post up your DM file.

Leave the plugs gapped where they are.The only reason to decrease the gap is because the boost is blowing out the spark (you don't have that prob)

It would be nice if you could get access tto a WBO2 to see what your actual a/f ratio is.

Post up the DM and we'll go from there. Also what chip and what fuel pressure you running?

The orange on the plug means it's getting super hot because it's starving for fuel.
 

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

That #6 plug ...what is that red deposit on the porcelain? Are you using DEXCOOL in the radiator? The other plug looks like it has some specks on the porcelain. For as low a mikeage on those plygs, something is wronf.

Timing should be higher while under vacuum and start to trail off under boost. Are you on a stock tune ir $59? I cant see a timing or heat mark on eiher plug.
 

Jimmy

Banned
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

That #6 plug ...what is that red deposit on the porcelain? Are you using DEXCOOL in the radiator? The other plug looks like it has some specks on the porcelain. For as low a mikeage on those plygs, something is wronf.

Timing should be higher while under vacuum and start to trail off under boost. Are you on a stock tune ir $59? I cant see a timing or heat mark on eiher plug.

My opinion on the plug discoloration is that it is getting very hot.
I think that the fuel sprayed in to the combustion chamber cools the plug down.When there is a lack of fuel with the plug firing it gets hot and turns orange.

:dunno:
 

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

My opinion on the plug discoloration is that it is getting very hot.
I think that the fuel sprayed in to the combustion chamber cools the plug down.When there is a lack of fuel with the plug firing it gets hot and turns orange.

:dunno:


I just pulled over to fill up and am taking a closer look Jimmy...looks like you may be right. Look at the bluing on the top and on the threads of #6.

Still, the other plug looks shitty for only 300 miles...
 

Jimmy

Banned
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

I just pulled over to fill up and am taking a closer look Jimmy...looks like you may be right. Look at the bluing on the top and on the threads of #6.

Still, the other plug looks shitty for only 300 miles...

2013 with no wideband is not cool.
 

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

i bumped up the fuel psi a lil and same thing... Air must have gotten into the IC system again cause the intake temps are simply out of control and definitely attributing to the knock, but can't be the sole reason.

no idea how to upload DM files to the site so i used some free file hosting site.

http://www.filedropper.com/5-10-13test

http://www.filedropper.com/5-11-13test

the first file is from yesterday before I bumped up the fuel psi. Still working on the WB02 haha... I'm ordering the ostrich thing this week. Already have the PLX.

This is stock chip, 2 bar (obviously), and after adjustments 47psi fuel
 

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

My opinion on the plug discoloration is that it is getting very hot.
I think that the fuel sprayed in to the combustion chamber cools the plug down.When there is a lack of fuel with the plug firing it gets hot and turns orange.

:dunno:


I just pulled over to fill up and am taking a closer look Jimmy...looks like you may be right. Look at the bluing on the top and on the threads of #6.

Still, the other plug looks shitty for only 300 miles...
 

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

I completely drained the IC yesterday and then gradually refilled it as the pump was running... I let it run with the cap off the upper for almost 2 hours and I can still hear air in the system and there's no visual coolant flow in the upper either... :rant: I don't get it, I filled the system up after the motor swap, coolant was flowing great. and intake temps were around 120 AFTER a WOT run... Now I get this BS. What other tricks are there for getting air out of the system? ...other than using a pump and filling it from the petcock on the lower CCHE... :dunno:
 

pearl91chevy

Donating Member
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

When I had to bleed my ic, I let the pump run for a few seconds and shut off, I'd hear the bubbles work there way up.. Then fill it up and repeat.. Took about 30min or so... Dunno if that helps but good luck man
 

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

When I had to bleed my ic, I let the pump run for a few seconds and shut off, I'd hear the bubbles work there way up.. Then fill it up and repeat.. Took about 30min or so... Dunno if that helps but good luck man

thanks for the tip, I'll give that a shot tomorrow. I'm fresh out on ideas at this point.
 

Quickstop [UK]

Combating adversyty.
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

Check your lines are flowing to the correct place. I disconnected the hoses and aimed at a bucket.

Is your drain tap working? On the lower CCHE, there is a drain plug. Try and fill it up using that.

Maybe stay out of WOT for a bit or consider an alky kit if your gas is that variable. A wideband is essential.

HTH.
 
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Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

got the air in the IC problem fixed. Ended up putting a hose on the end of the petcock in the lower CCHE, and blowing into it (no pun intended). Took awhile, but finally got all the air out of the system and the flow in the upper IC is back to normal.

Although I might have the routing wrong. Upper output on the lower CCHE goes to the lower input on the upper IC right? Or does it really matter?

Anyway, intake temps are back down around normal, 140* being the peak. Knock is now down to around an average of 5* at 12-15psi with a few 8-9* spikes, which I can only attribute to the wonderful 91oct we have here. Been using Chevron (which is allegedly the best) but I'm gonna try 76 this time and see if there's any difference. Either way, I doubt I'll ever see 0 knock with 91oct.

Time to get off my ass and install the alky!
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

The lower cche pump is suppose to goto the lower port of the IC (sounds you have it that way).

5 to 9 degree of kr is still too much. If you have to you can retard the base to -1 or -2 for 91 octane.
 

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

The lower cche pump is suppose to goto the lower port of the IC (sounds you have it that way).

5 to 9 degree of kr is still too much. If you have to you can retard the base to -1 or -2 for 91 octane.

thanks! I'm not questioning your answer but asking a question about your answer... Retarding the timing is more of a band aid for shit gas, and I should set it back to 0 after installing the alky for the best possible performance?
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

Yeah I would run it at zero with alky, I was suggestion removing additional timing if on pump gas. You should be able further tweak your truck to make it run better on pump gas. I have never run my syclone on 91 octane so I don't have any experience with that.
 

Mephisto

These trucks are cursed
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

Here's a pretty good explanation to shit gas that I just found on the google machine...

"By the time you read this, residents of Nevada and Arizona will have been screwed too. What, you don't live there? Just wait, you're next.
It's not like West Coasters haven't been screwed before. From roadside smog dynos to tickets for shiny mufflers, we're used to the man getting us down, but this time they're hitting us where we eat. This time they're taking our gas. We already have pretty crappy premium fuel in California. Just like most of the West Coast, we're stuck with 92 octane, while much of the Midwest and the East Coast got to play with 93 or better. Now, as of August 1, 2001, the best we can get is 91. Time to turn down the boost.

On the off chance you're only now trading in your Schwinn 10-speed on a twin-turbo Supra, I guess I should stop here and explain what octane is and how it affects your engine.

When fuel is injected into the cylinder, compressed and ignited, one of two things can happen. It either burns quickly and smoothly, shoving the piston down with a strong, even push, or it explodes all at once, releasing its energy in a sudden burst of heat and pressure. This explosion is called knocking or pinging, and it's something engineers like to call "really bad."

Knock is usually ill timed, occurring early in the combustion cycle when the crank and rod are still straight up or even worse, still trying to complete the compression stroke. As a result, all the energy released slams into the top of the piston without actually turning the crank. When this happens under stressful enough conditions--like, 20-psi of boost in a Miata--you start breaking things. Usually the ring lands; however, if your pistons are strong enough, you might get lucky and blow a head gasket.

Octane, for those of you still on the bike, is the rating of a fuel's ability to not do this. The higher the number, the less likely the fuel is to detonate. What this means to us, of course, is the higher the number, the more boost we can throw at that Miata. High-octane gas isn't just for tuners though. Plenty of stock cars depend on the stuff, including a Celica GT-S with its 11.5:1 compression, or a turbocharged WRX or Volkswagen 1.8T.

These cars rely on high-octane gas to keep from detonating. Feed them 91 octane and they won't start breaking things, because their knock sensors will see it coming and retard the timing, turn down the boost or otherwise reduce your chances of having any fun.

Whose fault is it this time, CARB? The EPA? The CHP? None of the above. This time we're being victimized partly by the oil companies, and partly--this is the one that hurts--by ourselves.

You see, when crude oil is refined into gasoline, the refinery doesn't have all that much control over what comes out. Crude oil is full of all kinds of stuff, and a refinery simply separates it, sorting all the iso-this and hepta-that in order of density. The really heavy stuff, like tar, is near the bottom, while the really light stuff, like butane, is near the top.

Somewhere in the upper ranges of the stack are the components of gasoline. There are between 10 and 15 different blend stocks, each with a different octane rating, which are mixed together to make gasoline.

The crude oil being used and little else determine the amount of each blend stock available for mixing. Generally, if you just dump all the blend stocks into a bucket, you end up with something around 88 or 89 octane. If you're selective and only mix the good stuff, you can make 92, 93 or even 95 octane. But once you take out the good stuff, you're left with crap--something like 85 octane. Then you have to leave enough good stuff in the bucket to bring this pee-water up to at least 87 octane. This limits the amount of 95-octane gas you can make. If you make 93-octane premium instead, you use up less of the high-octane stocks, allowing you to make a higher proportion of premium fuel.

In the Midwest, where an extensive customer base of good old boys in pickup trucks consume vast quantities of 87 octane, demand for premium fuel is low enough to make genuine high-octane premium.

In California, however, Lexus-driving executives suck down premium fuel like it's Evian, so 92 was the rule.

CARB isn't entirely innocent. Many of its standards for evaporative emissions and misdirected attempts at oxygenation have raised the manufacturing cost of high-octane gas, but it doesn't seem to be behind the sudden change to 91. Instead, according my super-secret oil industry mole, it all comes back to money. Unocal, you see, has a patent on the 173 easiest ways to make California-friendly 92-octane gas. As a result, every other oil company has to pay Unocal 5.75 cents for every gallon they make using one of these techniques. They haven't actually been paying it, but that's an issue for the lawyers to sort out.

Suddenly it's pretty obvious why our gas sucks, but why doesn't Unocal still sell us 92? Because it can't. In 1997, Unocal sold off all its 76 gas stations, and with them, its ability to decide what kind of gas to make. All Unocal can do now islook for oil, suck it out of the ground, and wish it had some way to make everybody else keep using its patents. You see, not only did Unocal screw us, they screwed themselves.

Ironically, the only gas stations in California with anything better than 91 octane are the ones Unocal used to own--the few 76 stations offering 100-octane race fuel. You can locate these elusive stations at www.76.com, but bring your wallet. The current going rate is $6.00 a gallon."


The short answer is, get alky.
 

Damian

Member
Re: 15psi = 15* right?

That's old news. Our gas has sucked for years. My old Eclipse ran like crap on our 91. I ran it on E85 even when I was still N/A. After I boosted it, I tried 91 and it still didn't run very good. I tried mixing E85 and 91 to get me around96 octane, ran great. I mix E85 with the Typhoon and it runs nice and smooth, my gas mileage barely changes when I run the mix.

I use this calculator when I started out mixing: http://www.bazellracefuels.com/Calcs/OC1.htm When you fill up enough times, you know just about how many gallons it takes to fill you up. I add 6 gallons of E85 before I add 91 and that gets me about 96 octane.

The down side to this is there aren't that many E85 stations in SoCal, luckily I have one about 2 blocks away here in Fullerton. E85 station locations can be found here: http://www.e85vehicles.com/e85-stations/e85-california.html
 
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