1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

[TYZ06]

Hey guys, my name is Connor McIntyre and I have recently purchased a 93 Typhoon with 52K on it. This car was owned by raman117 and Skata before him. Today was my first day playing with the datamaster and I was very surprised to see so much spark retard AKA knock! Below is a list of the mods that I am aware of on the car. Can you guys take a look at the run and give me your two cents? All in all I thought the car seemed to run great till datamater gave me an education (she has been very well taken care of - a 10 in and out).

List of mods:
- Walbro Fuel Pump
- Wrapped Intercooler
- Rerouted heat exchanger to front of radiator
- Julio's Alky Injection (Northern MN doesn't have the best gas)
- Rear Sway Bar
- New Spark Plugs, Wires, Cap, Rotor
- Amsoil Synthetic run in engine, transfer case, and transmission
- Bilstein Shocks all around
- Lowered 2" in the back with setback plates
- Corvette 18" Wagon Wheels all around
- F-Body Front Disk Brakes
- A-Arm bushings replaced with Poly
- Silicone Vac Line Kit Installed
- Muffler removed straight pipe (Cat is installed)

Things I don' know that I need to find out!
- I am not sure if it has a chip installed - I believe I have the stock one in the glove box with the 2 bar (in the datamaster it says 00001 and if I convert the map to 3 bar the reading is all over the place)
- Base Timing ?

This is my datamaster file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?8fh4h903r5wkqb8

P.S My dad just purchased a Sy with 80k on it over the last two days we installed a set of Recaro's out of an EVO, lines the bed, new bed cover, new window molding, Wilwood Brake kit, Moog full ft suspension, new Bilstein, Lowered 1 inch, Steering Column bushing mod, new CV's and we plan on running the datamaster on it tomorrow "We are hooked"!

Thanks this is the best car community I have had the privilege to be apart of :lol:

 

[randy merritt]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

I have never seen that much spark retard, very dangerous. Your injector duty cycle is above 120%, which indicates that you are running out of fuel, but it is hard to tell without a wide band O2. It would be very helpful to know what chip you are running. Your truck is not running very good. I wish I had a good, quick answer, but there are too many unknowns to post a good answer from me.

 

[wildphil]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Is this your truck. Maybe not. If so it looks like there was a KR issue before. Maybe never resolved?

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85402&highlight=raman117

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

This is my truck I purchased it back in Aug, I have been searching the SyTy sight and I had pointed this out prior to purchase and was told it was fixed. I have contacted the previous owner to get some more information and share the Datamaster log file. I get the timing tomorrow and perform a manifold leak test. I will also look to see if I can find any items that would contribute to false knock. Then I guess after that I will change all the plugs, wires and cap/rotor. I didn't think I would need to do that since everything is new, we have a "gremlin"! The thing that is really messing with me is the fact it is running so lean? I have a 255 Walboro (at least this is what I was told) and an Alky Kit which I had set at 5, then I ran it at Max setting to see if the KR would disappear and it didn't.

I really appreciate the quick responses, I really want to get the truck running as good as it looks and I want to do it before the New Year

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

I have completed a second DM now with the Alky Control all the way up (Level 8 on the dial) on the previous run I had it at (Level 4.5). There are a few differences that I can see the first is my max bost dropped by apx 2 psi and I experienced less KR (not allot less but better than 18 down to 14.5 still in danger zone). As I said before I will work hard on finding this issue, help from the experts is very much appreciated. I am off work for the next week so I have nothing but time to screw with the Ty. The strange thing is that the truck seemed to feel great, pulled hard off the line, shifted smooth if I didn't have the DM I would have thought everything was fine?

The link to the file run #2:
http://www.mediafire.com/?438l35guad636im

 

[the baPhoon]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Wbo2 is a must in your situation. Slap a plx on make a run and record the readings.

 

[johnboy89]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

You haven't mentioned that if you can hear it or not??? I would think with as much as it appears you have it would be audible???

Appears you're going down the same road as the previous owner did????

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

I cant hear a thing! Now this is my first Ty and I will be hooking up the DM to my fathers SY today to see how his is running. As far a being able to hear detonation I believe I have a tuned ear for it and with as much KR as the DM is logging I thought the same thing. I will be obsessing over this till I get it (I will be updating my post till I find the cause).

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

I'd pull the ecm and see exactly what eprom you have in there. I had a custom chip burned from a forum member years ago that was suppose to be good to go and the truck was the fastest i've ever felt but since I always ran my truck with dm on next to me I noticed right away that it would give 18 degree's of KR. I went through the normal false knock and fuel troube shooting I think everyone does and eventually found that it was the custom eprom that was the problem. At the very least make sure the custom eprom is installed properly or fully seated.

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

OK so I got an update, I have a 3 bar map installed with a Micheal Hood chip - which was done for Chad the previous owner. I am sending Micheal an email to see if I can get the particulars on the tune. I have attached a picture of the chip and the map just so we are all on the same page.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

I'll have to look and see what all was done to the chip, but based on the mods, I'm certain the timing is rather conservative and the fueling was not lowered in any way. I'll be glad to reburn the chip though if you send it my way.

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Mike,

Thanks for the quick responses. My dad will be driving from Charleston to Jacksonville tomorrow can he drop off the chip to you? Also I have attached a picture of a chip and map that was in the glove box is this the stock one? If so is there any harm installing it and seeing how the truck runs?

 

[sytyguy]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Absolutely.....have him drop it by or at least give me a call as he gets close (work # = 912.858.2425).

I would definitely try the stock chip and MAP and see how it does. If all is well then we know one of two things: (1) the chip was a bad burn or goofy setting or (2) the MAP sensor was faulty and causing the chip to fuel/advance improperly resulting in the knock retard.

LMK how it goes with the stock setup and grab a DM record while you're at it.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Another thought, try the "chuddy" chip with the stock (2 bar) MAP sensor. See if it works. I have 3 "chuddy" bins in my database and one of them is 2bar. Could have been something from a long time ago or it could be that the chip was burnt as a 2 bar.

 

[Aeroking]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

:2cents:

after reading through this thread, I must say that Connor is the ideal SyTy owner, and sounds like a great addition to the community.

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Guys,

I have installed the stock chip (I think it is stock) with the 2 bar map. I have also got the timing with the advanced wire on it is a quarter inch past the gage on the flywheel (so 15 -16?) With the advance wire disconnected it is 3 to 4 degrees advanced. This seems to be wrong? Could it be that with the Alky Kit this is why it is so advanced? Right now I want to get to no KR so what is my next move? Should I go to 0 and adjust the timing? I will go for a ride with the DM and see what it is doing, I will be careful.

 

[wildphil]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Yes set your timing to zero with the wire disconnected.

 

[randy merritt]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Guys,

I have installed the stock chip (I think it is stock) with the 2 bar map. I have also got the timing with the advanced wire on it is a quarter inch past the gage on the flywheel (so 15 -16?) With the advance wire disconnected it is 3 to 4 degrees advanced. This seems to be wrong? Could it be that with the Alky Kit this is why it is so advanced? Right now I want to get to no KR so what is my next move? Should I go to 0 and adjust the timing? I will go for a ride with the DM and see what it is doing, I will be careful.

Timing should be on 0 with the advance wire removed. Alky Kit will have nothing to do with your base timing. Once the advance wire is reconnected, the timing is handled by the chip/computer.

 

[johnboy89]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Looking thru the previous owners post that was listed below, appears he did the same thing, by putting the original chip/map back in? He still had knock when he put it back to stock though. Maybe after you get the timing correct you might be good to go. Double check the balancer ring as they have a tendency to slip.

Good Luck keep us posted!!!!!

 

[TYZ06]

Re: 1st Run on Datamaster LOTS of Knock Retard, Please Help!!

Well here is my update:

1) Removed custom chip and MAP 3 Bar
2) Installed stock chip and MAP 2 Bar
3) Set base timing to 0 (at least it was a close as I could get it - PITA)
4) Replaced fuel filter
5) Checked for any arching (blacked out garage) NONE!
6) Checked for vacuum leaks (with can of carb cleaner) NONE!
7) Checked for opportunities for false knock (down pipe, fuel lines, lose motor mounts) NONE!
8) Alky Control OFF!!

So what next? Should I lower my base timing a degree or two and if so will this eliminate all or lower KR? Thoughts???? My dad is taking the custom chip to Mike tomorrow and I will let him do his majic

Check out this DM file
http://www.mediafire.com/?e47cpfd3ay2bsro