HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
For those of you who swapped in a 4l80E for the old 700R4, I would be interested to hear your impressions related to the 2:48 1st gear.
4l80E 1st gear
- Thread starter HighPerformanceTrucks
- Start date
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
You didn't believe me?
We talked about it several times.
I'll type it out here.
What I found out when we got Tasos's truck into the low 10s high 9s is the 1st gear in the 700 becomes totally useless at those levels. Basically the tires burn off and the truck kinda crawls due to tire spin until you hit 2nd and then you actually start moving.
On the 80, the 1st gear ratio is much more attune to hard takeoff and you can hold 1st gear to a higher MPH. This gives you better time on the hole shot. Where the 700 immediately runs out of steam and has to shift, 80e is still working propelling you forward.
Now what your gonna see driving through the turns is that your gonna require MUCH less shifting because your gonna be driving at a higher mph in first and still making torque.
Again, 700 was used by GM because it was a cheap smog trans with a good 4th gear that came out in 1984. 80e was a workhorse DESIGNED to take torque and heavy loads and came out in 91 and perfected in 1999. Much newer technology but it's not a cheap trans for GM to be able to make money on.
Remember. If GM can swap out a bolt for a plastic christmas tree to hold a piece on to save 5 cents on 200,000 units, they did. This is why you never saw the 80e in the corvette or the syty's.
You didn't believe me?
We talked about it several times.
I'll type it out here.
What I found out when we got Tasos's truck into the low 10s high 9s is the 1st gear in the 700 becomes totally useless at those levels. Basically the tires burn off and the truck kinda crawls due to tire spin until you hit 2nd and then you actually start moving.
On the 80, the 1st gear ratio is much more attune to hard takeoff and you can hold 1st gear to a higher MPH. This gives you better time on the hole shot. Where the 700 immediately runs out of steam and has to shift, 80e is still working propelling you forward.
Now what your gonna see driving through the turns is that your gonna require MUCH less shifting because your gonna be driving at a higher mph in first and still making torque.
Again, 700 was used by GM because it was a cheap smog trans with a good 4th gear that came out in 1984. 80e was a workhorse DESIGNED to take torque and heavy loads and came out in 91 and perfected in 1999. Much newer technology but it's not a cheap trans for GM to be able to make money on.
Remember. If GM can swap out a bolt for a plastic christmas tree to hold a piece on to save 5 cents on 200,000 units, they did. This is why you never saw the 80e in the corvette or the syty's.
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
George,
Why you getting defensive? There is nothing in my post knocking your transmission or the 4l80E. Please take a chill pill. I don't need an explanation on the physics of the transmission as I already understand what you describe. I didn't say my 4l80E 1st gear is a pig and sucks does everyone else feel the same way. Geez I only asked for other's opinions!
Sorry if I'm getting defensive.
George,
Why you getting defensive? There is nothing in my post knocking your transmission or the 4l80E. Please take a chill pill. I don't need an explanation on the physics of the transmission as I already understand what you describe. I didn't say my 4l80E 1st gear is a pig and sucks does everyone else feel the same way. Geez I only asked for other's opinions!
Sorry if I'm getting defensive.
George Blake said:
Last edited:
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
Look. I'm not being defensive. I've answered these questions already and it gives the impression that my time was wasted on all those calls and yes, it bothers me.
As far as the physics lesson comment, I'm lost. That's how they work. There's no magic. That's just how it works and that's what you will experience. As far as getting feedback from others....you won't find anyone doing what you are doing. Hillclimbs, course racing, and other event type activities. The closest thing to what you are doing with the 4L80e was the "555 Sy" and he was making a LOT more power than you are (at least for now
). So your on your own for right now and others will be looking to you. Get some road time in and have some fun and most of all.....
QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT.
Have some frigging fun with it for God's sake.
BTW, I've got that magnet to put on your tailgate at the events. I'll get it out ASAP.
Look. I'm not being defensive. I've answered these questions already and it gives the impression that my time was wasted on all those calls and yes, it bothers me.
As far as the physics lesson comment, I'm lost. That's how they work. There's no magic. That's just how it works and that's what you will experience. As far as getting feedback from others....you won't find anyone doing what you are doing. Hillclimbs, course racing, and other event type activities. The closest thing to what you are doing with the 4L80e was the "555 Sy" and he was making a LOT more power than you are (at least for now
QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT.
Have some frigging fun with it for God's sake.
BTW, I've got that magnet to put on your tailgate at the events. I'll get it out ASAP.
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
I'm not worried at all except for the fact I will need to get over the fear of possibly blowing up when I put the hammer down. (Yes, I know we've had this conversation before and I know there are no worries.)
One thing I will need to work out will be the boost control gain settings on my profec B for fasters initial boost rise without spiking to help increase torque off the line. None of this will matter anyway when I get the new motor installed.
All is great! No need to read between the lines!
Please send the magnet!
I'm not worried at all except for the fact I will need to get over the fear of possibly blowing up when I put the hammer down. (Yes, I know we've had this conversation before and I know there are no worries.)
One thing I will need to work out will be the boost control gain settings on my profec B for fasters initial boost rise without spiking to help increase torque off the line. None of this will matter anyway when I get the new motor installed.
All is great! No need to read between the lines!
Please send the magnet!
George Blake said:Look. I'm not being defensive. I've answered these questions already and it gives the impression that my time was wasted on all those calls and yes, it bothers me.
As far as the physics lesson comment, I'm lost. That's how they work. There's no magic. That's just how it works and that's what you will experience. As far as getting feedback from others....you won't find anyone doing what you are doing. Hillclimbs, course racing, and other event type activities. The closest thing to what you are doing with the 4L80e was the "555 Sy" and he was making a LOT more power than you are (at least for now). So your on your own for right now and others will be looking to you. Get some road time in and have some fun and most of all.....
QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT.
Have some frigging fun with it for God's sake.
BTW, I've got that magnet to put on your tailgate at the events. I'll get it out ASAP.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
Adam.
Take that thing out and beat the piss out of it.
You need to get over the fear of breakage. I promise after a week of spirited driving, you'll forget about it.
Adam.
Take that thing out and beat the piss out of it.
You need to get over the fear of breakage. I promise after a week of spirited driving, you'll forget about it.
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
Drove it over the weekend.
I just got it back from Samco on Saturday with the new killer driveshaft loop/crossmember. Net loss of about 15 lbs since its tubular chrome moly and I was able to ditch the PEP driveshaft loop! Yes no more PEP parts on my truck! I really need to get a good shot of everything underneath to post up here. This is as good as it gets for chassis engineering on a truck frame w/o going tube frame.
Anyway, the shifts are nice, but I'm running the T-Com grandma's chevy suburban shift program. I'll need some seat time to dial in the shifting the way it should be. I first had to set the greddy profec boost controller before I got on the gas. Once I dial in the T-Com, I'll need to fine tune the boost controller again since the change in load will affect the boost curve. When I get the new motor installed and go with Big Stuff 3, I'll ditch the T-com and greddy and do everything with the Big Stuff.
Drove it over the weekend.
I just got it back from Samco on Saturday with the new killer driveshaft loop/crossmember. Net loss of about 15 lbs since its tubular chrome moly and I was able to ditch the PEP driveshaft loop! Yes no more PEP parts on my truck! I really need to get a good shot of everything underneath to post up here. This is as good as it gets for chassis engineering on a truck frame w/o going tube frame.
Anyway, the shifts are nice, but I'm running the T-Com grandma's chevy suburban shift program. I'll need some seat time to dial in the shifting the way it should be. I first had to set the greddy profec boost controller before I got on the gas. Once I dial in the T-Com, I'll need to fine tune the boost controller again since the change in load will affect the boost curve. When I get the new motor installed and go with Big Stuff 3, I'll ditch the T-com and greddy and do everything with the Big Stuff.
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
George,
Please give me a call at your earliest convenience at 775-624-0177.
George,
Please give me a call at your earliest convenience at 775-624-0177.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
I sent you an email with a different program to put into T-com.
I sent you an email with a different program to put into T-com.
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
Thanks got it. All was the same as my program except for a slight change in tire diameter and the throttle position settings.
Thanks got it. All was the same as my program except for a slight change in tire diameter and the throttle position settings.
George Blake said:
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
TPS settings determine pressure vs throttle position. You didn't like the Grandma shifts, so I sent you one that took care of that. If you want really aggressive shifts, flip that switch I told you about.
Tire diameter and rear end ratio are very important as well as cylinder number. The TCU uses this to calculate vehicle speed. If any of these are off, it can keep you from getting it just right.
It's NOT gonna have a 700r 1-2 shift. That shift is what causes a lot of problems for the 700 and it's due to the drastic ratio change. The 80e won't do that. Just a nice firm crisp shift and your gone.
TPS settings determine pressure vs throttle position. You didn't like the Grandma shifts, so I sent you one that took care of that. If you want really aggressive shifts, flip that switch I told you about.
Tire diameter and rear end ratio are very important as well as cylinder number. The TCU uses this to calculate vehicle speed. If any of these are off, it can keep you from getting it just right.
It's NOT gonna have a 700r 1-2 shift. That shift is what causes a lot of problems for the 700 and it's due to the drastic ratio change. The 80e won't do that. Just a nice firm crisp shift and your gone.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
There is a special torque converter you can get that behaves like a switch pitch that Coan makes. It behaves like a stock stall until you really put your foot in it then it stalls higher.
Now, the TCI controller has a performance mode that you run through a switch. You may have seen that too. That does a 25% line pressure kick when you ground that wire through a switch.
SY2455 said:
There is a special torque converter you can get that behaves like a switch pitch that Coan makes. It behaves like a stock stall until you really put your foot in it then it stalls higher.
Now, the TCI controller has a performance mode that you run through a switch. You may have seen that too. That does a 25% line pressure kick when you ground that wire through a switch.
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
You misunderstood my post again. I wasn't complaining about anything. Simply stated I needed to get working on fine tuning the T-Com to suit my vehicle's needs. I never said that I didn't like Grandma's shifts only meant that the T-Com was in the default setting to get the vehicle moving.
You misunderstood my post again. I wasn't complaining about anything. Simply stated I needed to get working on fine tuning the T-Com to suit my vehicle's needs. I never said that I didn't like Grandma's shifts only meant that the T-Com was in the default setting to get the vehicle moving.
George Blake said:
HighPerformanceTrucks
Lift & Shift Specialist
Re: 4l80E 1st gear
This might surprise George, but after getting the boost controller dialed in a bit, I was impressed the way the his transmission shifted on the fly. Hard to believe the tranny used to be a heavy duty commercial use transmission. (Before George rebuilt it into a performance tranny...just to clarify)
This might surprise George, but after getting the boost controller dialed in a bit, I was impressed the way the his transmission shifted on the fly. Hard to believe the tranny used to be a heavy duty commercial use transmission. (Before George rebuilt it into a performance tranny...just to clarify)