4l80e conversion.

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PPI Typhoon

DIY Madman
Re: 4l80e conversion.

NecroWolf said:
the way george describes it, it woulf be more of a pain in the ass than worth it. i've learned my lesson piecing my damn truck together. just go with the vendors, saves a lot of headache. now if i can win the texas lottery i could afford the 4l80e from george....
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Yeah, I already have a 4WD 80e, so it's not really an issue for me. Now that I know that the absence of the reluctor ring isn't the end of the world, I'll just get 4x4 versions from here on out and modify my harness to accomodate using the transfer case sensor as my TOSS. :tup:

The replaced input shaft is really the best way to go IMO.
 
fivetodrive

fivetodrive

CRISPY
Re: 4l80e conversion.

Hey George - after re-reading the GP thread it looks like the only 4l80 tranny that you can just cut down the shaft on is the 1997 and up ones. Is that correct?
 
Tooky

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: 4l80e conversion.

A few questions:

1.) What 4L80 output shaft does Robert have? Didn't he go at least low 9s with a 27 spline SyTy-style output shaft?

2.) Is it really practical to put a junkyard 4L80 in with no mods? I mean, can that really work? Admittedly I don't have experience with the electronic trannys but I'd have to suspect it would take some recalibration to accommodate the high torque of a turbo engine as well as a high stall torque converter.

2A.) Wouldn't you normally rebuild any junkyard trans before you do a monster install job like a SyTy 4L80 install, only to find out the trans was bad and/or dumped junk into your cooler on startup? (or your $1200 custom 4L80 torque converter)

2B.) Are there any SyTys running right now with a junkyard 4L80? What kind of dragstrip times are they running and how is the trans holding up? At what HP/TQ or boost point do the factory clutches begin to slip?

3.) How fast did Ed go on his 700? The last I remember was a "B&M Trans Guts" 700R4 with a tight converter and I think he went 11.9s. If he went much faster I'm really curious because I thought after his B&M 700R4 let go, he went right to TH400.
 
Tooky

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: 4l80e conversion.

George Blake said:
Those questions are mute.
What guys are looking for is an inexpensive way just to make it happen. THEN build up later if they want/need to. That's what we were talking about. Not "monster" build jobs.
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George, I'm not sure if you read exactly what I wrote. All my concerns are valid, even more so for someone trying to do it inexpensively. The risk of killing a $1200 converter (nobody is going to run a 4L80 with the heavy stock 4L80 converter that could only spool a stock turbo, right?). The risk of having to do the enormous install more than once. (It's not something you're gonna do in an afternoon on your back with a pair of jackstands by yourself.) Notice I said it was a "monster install", not a monster "build job". Dunno where you got that from. :dunno:

Also, knowing how far the junkyard build will comfortably handle. There's nothing moot about it (I assume by "mute" you meant "moot" - look it up.)

If you don't want to answer my questions that's fine, I posed them to the forum in general, not you specifically (it is Denny's thread after all.)
 
P

PPI Typhoon

DIY Madman
Re: 4l80e conversion.

Well being right in the middle of the conversion myself, I AM one of those people that are the type that just want to get the truck moving at first. An entire LSx swap is a lot of work and it's a whole lot easier to get things in there and working first, and THEN working on upgrading it.

I will not dispute that you know more than anyone (in my opinion) on 4L80E's with SyTy's. I think you've been a great help. I think there are some things though that are cloudy to people when it comes to the 4L80E, and I personally have found this out in doing this conversion: All of which have been clarified by you.

You don't NEED to disassemble the transmission for things like a TOSS reluctor ring. You CAN use the transfer case sensor.

You don't NEED to buy the $1000 torque converter. You CAN use the stock one. It just won't work well with the turbo, but it will get the truck running. Granted it's a heavy biotch, but it will work. (of course mine bolts right up being the V8).

There's also a question about the crossmember. Can't you just cut the mounting section out of the stock unit and weld it back from the stock location like PATC does? Granted, this doesn't save weight, but it could be for a budget conversion. I personally have a custom crossmember from JS, but if you wanted to keep it budget, can't you just modify the crossmember?

You've also just found that the RV version of the 4L80E 2WD can be used just by cutting the shaft.

Just some things like that are where I think people are confused.

Now if people want a simple solution, they drop $5-6k with Prime Gears and you have a solution that leaves you with no questions, a monster trannsmission, better instructions, etc. I DO plan on spending that much with you, but with the whole swap in my way, I'm more worried about getting it all together and working. THEN I'll buy the big transmission from you and throw it up in there with the confidence that I can throw the transmission in there with little worries about anything else.

Depending on the person, it may be VERY difficult to come up with 6k for peace of mind. However, a "budget" 4L80E install is better than a blown 700 any day. :)

It's all just very new and I think some people get scared very easily. It's just like the LSx swap. I'm finding that it's a challenge, but it's not nearly as hard as others made it sound before I started it. And with your help GB, I'm finding that the 4L80E conversion isn't as hard as some make it sound either.

I just hope you don't get pushed away GB from people that seem to want to attack you.
 
P

PPI Typhoon

DIY Madman
Re: 4l80e conversion.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy. I had no problem paying $600 for the shaft. People say I'm crazy for doing it, but I think it's totally worth it.

I didn't buy the kit for a couple reasons. First, I had asked if the install kit could be parted out without the output shaft. I actually didn't get an answer until recently, and that's after I sourced individual parts. I know you had personal issues that kept you from posting. And after talking to you on the phone, you expressed how busy you are and that a lot of people just waste your time.

It's similar to the situation where I used to make ALDL cables. When I started, the only actively buffered ALDL cables available were $100+. There were cheaper options, but not with the best technology. So I did the research, designed the boards, and sold hundreds of them. Even when I was able to sell them for $40 to people, saving them $60+, they STILL wanted me to send them the schematics. I realized that's just how people are. So.....I did. Now there are websites like aldlcables.com that have $50 cables. Coincidence?? Maybe. Just like PATC and you. I eventually stopped making the cables. I made about $10 a cable. Not a killing. Not a big deal. I was happy that the community had more options.

Even after those options are available, I STILL get PM's from people asking if I make cables and they would like to buy one, a couple, or even dozens from me.

My point is that it IS the nature of the internet like you said, but I don't think it will kill your business. If the whole process was de-mystified, then I think more people would actually do the upgrade. People are scared of what they don't understand.

With my cables, I even did a walkthrough how to make your own cable with radio shack parts. I even drew 3d pictures walking you through how to solder the parts on the board. Even after that, people STILL bought hundreds of cables from me.

I have no problems with you and I very much appreciate your help. When I get my truck running, you WILL be hearing from me. I'm not one of those people you're talking about. I remember when the input shafts idea came about, you were skeptical about people saying they wanted one, but wouldn't come through. I did come through, and I am glad I did business with you. Because you've been helpful, that makes me want to do business with you. I just personally don't like doing something and not understanding how it's done........and more importantly, WHY it's done. That's the point I was trying to make in my post.
 
Syclone Rob

Syclone Rob

Its all ABOOT the SYTY eh
Re: 4l80e conversion.

George Blake said:
I used to do ALDL cable years ago. Guys bounced checks, frauded paypal, everything else. That was an eye opener. Lots of scum out there.
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And these are the people that ruin it for the good guys... Sorry that it happens, but just so you know George, every part of my 4l80e conversion is coming from you.. including the tranny itself, i am just saving up for it!!! Thanks for the great work and dedication to this!

Though, I do have 1 question, do we get the tranny controller through you, or elsewhere is ok? I mean, I prefer through you as I know you would offer some support of I required some, but if not, then I purchase it elsewhere.
 
bezerk

bezerk

New member
Re: 4l80e conversion.

it is all about money....
if i had 6K burning in my pocket i would buy a 4l80E from you, but i simply don't have it....but could we run a stock 4l80E and throw some parts on it so it is capable of 550HP? maybe with a converter? and still have some fun? and throw 6K at it later?
 
Tooky

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: 4l80e conversion.

George Blake said:
You need to start another thread.
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Let's get one thing straight right away George. I don't need your permission to post whatever I want here. This is not the "George Blake 4L80e Conversion Thread". Just "4L80e conversion". You have NO more authority than I do here. My questions were 100% ON-topic and so was the thread, until your bizarre emotional overreaction. If you can't handle technical discussion without personal attacks and NAME-CALLING :)roll:), maybe you should stick to the Prime Gears forum where you can tout your products till your heart's content.

What you are asking is not what these guys are wanting to know. They want to know an inexpensive way to do it to get started and upgrade later.
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Is that right? Are you a mind-reader, or how are you able to tell "what these guys are wanting to know"? It sounded to me like they were looking for 4L80 options and I discussed them. But more importantly, the questions I asked are what *I* want to know. If you don't like my questions, don't respond to my posts. I'm not going to stop asking them.

Robert has a completely different arrangement but it does use a cut down shaft. His launches are different and he's very careful on his burnouts.
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OK so at least we have established the answer to #1 of my questions: The 27 spline SyTy-style output shaft has gone single digits. Now "a completely different arrangement"? That's a rather vague way to put it. It's still a 4L80, yet "completely different"? You're short on details here.

And it's not an enormous install. It is for someone that has NEVER done a trans. For someone that has done a trans, if they follow the manual, it's a straight swap.
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My problem with you George, has and continues to be, your wild claims that always seem to change month to month. Just 3 months ago you said:

George Blake said:
Shadtrees can do this but it is a major DRIVELINE mod. It will not be EASY. If it were EASY every shop on every corner would be doing them for free. Fact is it's not easy and you are doing a MAJOR driveline modification.
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So which is it? A "straight swap" or a "major DRIVELINE mod that's not EASY"? Doesn't sound like something I'd want to be doing more than necessary, that's for sure, and that's why I asked about the practicality of using a junkyard trans or a stock converter, knowing that most people will have to swap them out again down the road.

The only thing "ridiculous" and "out there" in this thread, is you. Nobody's out to get you. You just accused me of trying to call you up and hang up on you. Trust me, after you completely flaked out on me with our last deal, I wouldn't even consider doing business with you again at any time.

But what you do need to understand, is that you are not the ONLY source of 4L80s and people like me WILL be doing them without you, and you have no choice but to deal with it because I'm going to continue posting critical 4L80 questions more frequently as my own 4L80 install draws nearer.

I can only guess that part of what set you off, is me pointing out that the 27 spline shaft has gone single digits, and you happen to sell a $700 custom shaft. But that's your problem, not mine. My style has always been to do the most, with the least. That's why I recommended a junkyard engine for Jeff Scott's situation, not sure what's so confusing to you about that? At least I've proven my style works - by actually building and racing a truck that produces fast timeslips, and publishing the complete budget for the world to see and use. Go ahead and tell me what's "rediculous" about that. (Your spelling not mine, or did you mean to do that again like "mute point"?)
 
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