Typhoon#747
Donating Member
Re: can i align truck myself
Not cool and definitely not necessary. We are just discussing car alignments here.
Not cool and definitely not necessary. We are just discussing car alignments here.
can i align truck myself
- Thread starter sychris
- Start date
JSM
Active member
Re: can i align truck myself
Strong language sure, more for the shock and to make someone think though.
To put this in perspective, my day job involve me being in charge of machining of parts with values in the millions of dollars. 1 part alone can be valued at over 2 million dollars, and I might be over seeing several at one time. Tolerances of these parts can be very close, as close as .0001" sometimes even less when we get into light bands.
I have access to some of the best inspection equipment available, including laser inspection equipment. We have proven time and time again laser has limitations, and although it gives you nice clean numbers it is not always gospel and the data must be looked at carefully. It is a great tool sure.
We don't machine a single part using the laser systems to determine size. For that we use good old fashion inspection equipment, not tape measures very often but not far from it at times either. The laser is only used for final verification of features we already know are correct using "tape measures". When you get to .0001" tolerances a laser is worthless.
My point is it naive to say a laser will always be better than a string/tape measure method. Some mechanics can, others will fail depending who is on the string/tape measure.
The original question of can you do an alignment at home is YES and you CAN get just as good of job, and in some cases better (some worse).
In no way do I claim to be an expert, but I have done a fair amount of research, college level suspension classes, and hands on. I didn't climb out from under a rock last week, in fact I was around syty's 14 years before the poster in question joined this site, and cars way before that.
Strong language sure, more for the shock and to make someone think though.
To put this in perspective, my day job involve me being in charge of machining of parts with values in the millions of dollars. 1 part alone can be valued at over 2 million dollars, and I might be over seeing several at one time. Tolerances of these parts can be very close, as close as .0001" sometimes even less when we get into light bands.
I have access to some of the best inspection equipment available, including laser inspection equipment. We have proven time and time again laser has limitations, and although it gives you nice clean numbers it is not always gospel and the data must be looked at carefully. It is a great tool sure.
We don't machine a single part using the laser systems to determine size. For that we use good old fashion inspection equipment, not tape measures very often but not far from it at times either. The laser is only used for final verification of features we already know are correct using "tape measures". When you get to .0001" tolerances a laser is worthless.
My point is it naive to say a laser will always be better than a string/tape measure method. Some mechanics can, others will fail depending who is on the string/tape measure.
The original question of can you do an alignment at home is YES and you CAN get just as good of job, and in some cases better (some worse).
In no way do I claim to be an expert, but I have done a fair amount of research, college level suspension classes, and hands on. I didn't climb out from under a rock last week, in fact I was around syty's 14 years before the poster in question joined this site, and cars way before that.
bshaw1979
New member
Re: can i align truck myself
If your implying that I'm a newbie to working on cars just by my join date then that's pretty ignorant. Since I'd be willing to bet I've done more alignments in this calendar year than you've done in the past 10. Then you blow up when I say a $40k machine is more accurate than your tape.. Like that's so crazy to say. Not to mention you shouldn't go around calling people "monkeys". Some might mistake that for a racist comment .
If your implying that I'm a newbie to working on cars just by my join date then that's pretty ignorant. Since I'd be willing to bet I've done more alignments in this calendar year than you've done in the past 10. Then you blow up when I say a $40k machine is more accurate than your tape.. Like that's so crazy to say. Not to mention you shouldn't go around calling people "monkeys". Some might mistake that for a racist comment .
DaveP
Active member
Re: can i align truck myself
Bull.
The machine can be out of calibration. And probably often is, based on observing the hourly monkey handle the equipment they don't own and don't pay for the servicing, nor have to pay for ruined tires because of a bad toe setting. The shop owner pays for the tires, and has to please the client.
A piece of string and a bubble gauge is NEVER out of calibration.
There are three reputable long-time alignment shops in South Bay. None of them have "computer equipment". They all use bubble gauges, trammel gauges, string, and 4-corner scales to set spring rates. I found one of these shops in the 80's when I bent-up my 3 month old Corvette after a couple beers too many. He aligned it with string and a trammel gauge. It was better than it had been for the three months it was new.
I call BS on a sensitive machine that needs calibration in the hands of an hourly employee being "better" than a long time tech that knows what he's doing, and owns the shop himself using accurate measuring techniques. Like string, trammel gauges, and bubble gauges.
I used to use these old-school shops until an apathetic technician pissed me off and I just do them my self now. Yes, I use a tape measure.
Bull.
The machine can be out of calibration. And probably often is, based on observing the hourly monkey handle the equipment they don't own and don't pay for the servicing, nor have to pay for ruined tires because of a bad toe setting. The shop owner pays for the tires, and has to please the client.
A piece of string and a bubble gauge is NEVER out of calibration.
There are three reputable long-time alignment shops in South Bay. None of them have "computer equipment". They all use bubble gauges, trammel gauges, string, and 4-corner scales to set spring rates. I found one of these shops in the 80's when I bent-up my 3 month old Corvette after a couple beers too many. He aligned it with string and a trammel gauge. It was better than it had been for the three months it was new.
I call BS on a sensitive machine that needs calibration in the hands of an hourly employee being "better" than a long time tech that knows what he's doing, and owns the shop himself using accurate measuring techniques. Like string, trammel gauges, and bubble gauges.
I used to use these old-school shops until an apathetic technician pissed me off and I just do them my self now. Yes, I use a tape measure.
eviltwin
"junkyard syclone"
Re: can i align truck myself
My shop done alignment shook at 120+mph and wore the outside of my tires. Black Knight, who use to do aliments for a living, helped me realign my truck in the driveway with a string and tape. 165+mph without a problem.
Not saying they are all crap but there not all the best.
My shop done alignment shook at 120+mph and wore the outside of my tires. Black Knight, who use to do aliments for a living, helped me realign my truck in the driveway with a string and tape. 165+mph without a problem.
Not saying they are all crap but there not all the best.
![Quickstop [UK]](/forums/data/avatars/m/5/5165.jpg?1570199786){kind=avatar}
Quickstop [UK]
Combating adversyty.
Re: can i align truck myself
Even more succinctly, shit in = shit out.
Even more succinctly, shit in = shit out.
bshaw1979
New member
Re: can i align truck myself
I'm not trying to be a jerk so please don't take it this way but... An alignment will not cause a shake or vibration. Unless it is severely out of adjustment or you have bad parts or tires.
I'm not trying to be a jerk so please don't take it this way but... An alignment will not cause a shake or vibration. Unless it is severely out of adjustment or you have bad parts or tires.
bshaw1979
New member
Re: can i align truck myself
Well Dave I'd guess you've done a few and you are probably pretty good at it. And you probably get it pretty damn spot on. I'm just saying that unless your set up for doing that it's kind of a pain and just easier to take it to a shop of someone you trust. that's just my opinion and sorry if made anyone mad.
Well Dave I'd guess you've done a few and you are probably pretty good at it. And you probably get it pretty damn spot on. I'm just saying that unless your set up for doing that it's kind of a pain and just easier to take it to a shop of someone you trust. that's just my opinion and sorry if made anyone mad.
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: can i align truck myself
But that's not JUST what you're saying. Since page one, you've been claiming that old school methods are not and cannot be as good as modern tech. This is NOT TRUE, and the fact that you claim so offends those of us who know it to be true just as much as calling an alignment tech a monkey offends you.
Now, let's move on to more productive conversations....
But that's not JUST what you're saying. Since page one, you've been claiming that old school methods are not and cannot be as good as modern tech. This is NOT TRUE, and the fact that you claim so offends those of us who know it to be true just as much as calling an alignment tech a monkey offends you.
Now, let's move on to more productive conversations....
JSM
Active member
Re: can i align truck myself
For example I have proven with "string/tape measure" at work that a $700k+ laser inspection machine was WRONG. How do you think laser's are calibrated? With another laser or with "Old school" equipment that works?
It is obvious you have your opinion, I have mine. I will leave it at that.
For example I have proven with "string/tape measure" at work that a $700k+ laser inspection machine was WRONG. How do you think laser's are calibrated? With another laser or with "Old school" equipment that works?
It is obvious you have your opinion, I have mine. I will leave it at that.
Horsehammerr
New member
Re: can i align truck myself
OK, first I know I'm not a SYTY expert and just a shade-tree wrencher. The fact is , after taking the Sportsmachine alignment specs to three different shops to be applied to my TB front lowered and Block rear lowered on 245/50/16 Nexen CP641's 2002 S-10 Crewcab, these experts could do nothing but set it to factory specs. After repeated tries by all three I'd had enough. I studied the ole "stringline and tape" method and for the first time on this truck I got what I wanted. After 12,000 miles of combined 'Ozark Hills' boogeying and Auto-cross competing the only adjustments I've had to do is tire pressure checks daily, Yes I'm a FANATIC about tire wear and control, this truck works with great control and these tires are wearing as perfectly as perfect can be.
OK, first I know I'm not a SYTY expert and just a shade-tree wrencher. The fact is , after taking the Sportsmachine alignment specs to three different shops to be applied to my TB front lowered and Block rear lowered on 245/50/16 Nexen CP641's 2002 S-10 Crewcab, these experts could do nothing but set it to factory specs. After repeated tries by all three I'd had enough. I studied the ole "stringline and tape" method and for the first time on this truck I got what I wanted. After 12,000 miles of combined 'Ozark Hills' boogeying and Auto-cross competing the only adjustments I've had to do is tire pressure checks daily, Yes I'm a FANATIC about tire wear and control, this truck works with great control and these tires are wearing as perfectly as perfect can be.
Adam#0213
This truck is awesome!!
Typhoon#747
Donating Member
Re: can i align truck myself
I'm just curious about this. Why weren't they able to set it to Sportmachines's specs? Did they refuse to do it because the numbers didn't match their database? Were their machines not capable of obtaining those numbers? Were those specs beyond the adjustment limitations of the suspension? Or did they just flat out didn't feel like using your specs?
I'm just curious about this. Why weren't they able to set it to Sportmachines's specs? Did they refuse to do it because the numbers didn't match their database? Were their machines not capable of obtaining those numbers? Were those specs beyond the adjustment limitations of the suspension? Or did they just flat out didn't feel like using your specs?
JSM
Active member
Re: can i align truck myself
Most shops have very little understand about what the specs are, how they relate, and just flat refuse to do anything other than factory specs. Sometimes they will cite liability, but to be honest most of time it is due to lack of understanding.
Walk into an alignment shop and ask them to calculate your roll center for you, see what you get for looks? Ask them to calbulate anit-dive, or explain to your what anti-dive or roll center is? I suspect you will get a blank stare.
Now go to a back yard dirt track racer that has a old monte carlo, beat to crap, notice his tool box has a string/tape measure and ask him the same questions. I suspect you might get some information and he won't have a blank stare and probably knows more than they alignment tech that did 100 alignments last month.
In fact go to local go cart track and ask the 15 year old kid driving his cart some of the same questions, you might actually get good info from him and he has never had a job yet.
Most shops have very little understand about what the specs are, how they relate, and just flat refuse to do anything other than factory specs. Sometimes they will cite liability, but to be honest most of time it is due to lack of understanding.
Walk into an alignment shop and ask them to calculate your roll center for you, see what you get for looks? Ask them to calbulate anit-dive, or explain to your what anti-dive or roll center is? I suspect you will get a blank stare.
Now go to a back yard dirt track racer that has a old monte carlo, beat to crap, notice his tool box has a string/tape measure and ask him the same questions. I suspect you might get some information and he won't have a blank stare and probably knows more than they alignment tech that did 100 alignments last month.
In fact go to local go cart track and ask the 15 year old kid driving his cart some of the same questions, you might actually get good info from him and he has never had a job yet.
Typhoon#747
Donating Member
Re: can i align truck myself
Thanks for your input but I want the reason from Horsehammerr.
Thanks for your input but I want the reason from Horsehammerr.
Typhoon#747
Donating Member
Re: can i align truck myself
I think those eyeballs are out of calibration.
I think those eyeballs are out of calibration.
bshaw1979
New member
Re: can i align truck myself
Well to be honest that was half my point the other is that its 10 times easier and faster. The fact of trying to adjust camber on these trucks in a driveway sounds like a nightmare.
Well to be honest that was half my point the other is that its 10 times easier and faster. The fact of trying to adjust camber on these trucks in a driveway sounds like a nightmare.