changed purple wire and still not working ?

[mandingo]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

ocasionally tys suffers from the "purple wire syndrome". For those that don't know what that means. its when (because of inherit heat from the turbo) a hot start can be difficult because of thermal break down of the wire going to the starter solenoid. If you purchase a solenoid relocation kit should solve your problem

 

[George Blake]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

GM starters suffered a few problems.
The solenoids that are mounted on the starters are greatly affected by heat. If they get heat soaked from driving around town for 40 minutes, you stop, get back in, get ready to start it, NOPE. Heat soaked and won't work until the solenoid cools back down. Over time the solenoid is permanently damaged by the heat and nothing will work.
The other thing is called "flat spots" on the starter windings. What happens is the same thing. Heat damages the magnet(looks like a big drill inside where the windings go around the magnets)and then the starter won't work until you smack it with a hammer or everything inside rolls to a different spot. This is why sometimes they'll work great for 2 or 3 months and then boom, no workey no more and then the next time you can get it to start, it works fine for like a month and then the same thing happens.
The adition of the turbo and the special manifold that puts the heat DIRECTLY on the starter compounded the problem.
The NEW ministarters were made initially for diesels that had turbos and lots of heat. They are a MUCH better design. Better grade magnets, smaller size to allow more air space and better torque multiplication. The reason for the high torque is for the high compression needed to start a diesel engine.
VERY nice starter. This is the same one in the GP. You may not be able to get GP pricing anymore but it looks like he can get them for $90+shipping with is about $30 cheaper than going to NAPA.

 

[vinnieTy]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

I cut the purple wire from the top of the engine bay by the firewall. I then soldered a wire from there same gauge and ran it down with a new positive battery cable. I ran both wires in a 1/2inch heater hose about 12 inches long and i never had a problem ever since. Of course installed a factory new starter straight from the dealer. Got a deal from a friend that i couldnt say no. :tup:

Starts up every time.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

GM starters suffered a few problems.
The solenoids that are mounted on the starters are greatly affected by heat. If they get heat soaked from driving around town for 40 minutes, you stop, get back in, get ready to start it, NOPE. Heat soaked and won't work until the solenoid cools back down. Over time the solenoid is permanently damaged by the heat and nothing will work.
The other thing is called "flat spots" on the starter windings. What happens is the same thing. Heat damages the magnet(looks like a big drill inside where the windings go around the magnets)and then the starter won't work until you smack it with a hammer or everything inside rolls to a different spot. This is why sometimes they'll work great for 2 or 3 months and then boom, no workey no more and then the next time you can get it to start, it works fine for like a month and then the same thing happens.
The adition of the turbo and the special manifold that puts the heat DIRECTLY on the starter compounded the problem.

I understand all of this. But how does a Ford starter solenoid fit into the mix?

Right now mine is wired as so.....battery to one side of Ford noid, other side of noid to the starter's + terminal. There is a smaller wire connected from the + on the starter to the engage terminal(I don't know what else to call it). All of this is fired off by the purple wire going to the engage terminal on the Ford noid. So when the key is turned, the wire from the Ford noid goes hot which at the same time makes the smaller wire on the starter engage terminal go hot as well.

Does that make sense? And could this set up have something to do with my starter staying engaged for a short time after you let off the key? If so, why?

Or are you more saying that the Ford noid isn't built to handle the amps it is taking and will fail? ie has nothing to do with my sticking starter.....

 

[kentuc]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

Your Ford solonoid is hooked up as a relay to engage the solonoid on the original starter. Having the extra relay holds the original solonoid in just a milisecond longer. This plays havoc with the teeth on the ring gear.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

OK. So the best bet is to convert this thing back to OEM specs then, correct? I can do that easily when I am replacing my fenders. Heck, I could do it pretty easily now with the inner fenders out of the truck.

 

[George Blake]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

Yep. Get rid of the Ford Solenoid, get one of the GM high torque ministarters, run a large gauge wire down to the solenoid to activate it (battery cable on the other terminal), and run some kind of heat shielding on the wire. I run a relay to protect the stock ignition switch. If you are confused by the Ford Solenoid stuff, don't do any relay's. Just put it back the way it was.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

I'll give it a shot. Thanks all.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: changed purple wire and still not working ?

I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for telling me to get rid of the Ford starter solenoid. I put the system back to OEM and that cured my sticking starter issue.

I did run both the battery cable and the ignition wire through a length of heat shielding to help protect them.