Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

[UR50SLO]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I'd feel more comfortable with the hub mounted ballancer than a gear driven distributor. There would be alot more variance in timing in a cam to dist. gear than a rubber hub.
That'd be my only worry with dist. driven spark signal.

If we use a solid ballancer with out the rubber we could fit a ring to the outer part of that. It wouldn't move like the stocker plus there's plenty of room (width/height) for the size we need. Put timing marks right on the outer ring.?
Why do simple things seem so hard sometimes?
~Scott

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Here is my theory for a non-crank mounted ring:

mounted where the rotor would be....if its spinning at 1/2 speed of the crank....this 'should' work right?

It might. The thing I'd be worried about is the wigglyness of the distributor.. although the existing reluctor is there and it doesn't seem to have too many problems.

Sensor mounting would be the next issue. You could fab a plate that would use the cap bolt holes. There are some fairly short sensors out there, so you could package it fairly tight.

You'd also need some sort of a cover over the assembly... with all the wires/hoses back there, something would get snagged.

Maybe the cover could be made into a mounting plate for the module as well... kill 2 birds.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

It might. The thing I'd be worried about is the wigglyness of the distributor.. although the existing reluctor is there and it doesn't seem to have too many problems.

Sensor mounting would be the next issue. You could fab a plate that would use the cap bolt holes. There are some fairly short sensors out there, so you could package it fairly tight.

You'd also need some sort of a cover over the assembly... with all the wires/hoses back there, something would get snagged.

Maybe the cover could be made into a mounting plate for the module as well... kill 2 birds.

cap bolt holes....and the distributor hold down bolt. The assembly could serve as the hold down, and the sensor could mount to the cap bolts so you could still adjust the sensor when setting your base timing.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

New pics/measurements:




Click for larger pic.

Distance between the inner hub bolts is 2.750" (center to center).
O.D. of inner hub ring (on the balancer pictured) is 4.5625" (although, I'd like to get it off the crank and do a proper caliper measurement to be sure)

I'll try to pull the balancer and get some proper measurements this weekend.

Hood

 

[UR50SLO]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Call me nuts but if you guys think that running it off the dist. signal would be ok then isn't there a device from Caspers that would double the "hits" of the stock dist. pickup that already exists?

Like if you set the TAC from "4 or 6 or 8" on your aftermarket Tach it'll read higher/lower. Isn't there a way of replicating a double hit? Maby I need a nap? I R not thinking right.

Just called the boat place... "IF" the ballancer was avalible to us it'd only be 65.00 The don't make it anymore and don't plan on it. That stinks!
The Sensor they used does not exist anymore either.
Boat junk yards only.
I just want to see how they did it!
~Scott~

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Call me nuts but if you guys think that running it off the dist. signal would be ok then isn't there a device from Caspers that would double the "hits" of the stock dist. pickup that already exists?

Like if you set the TAC from "4 or 6 or 8" on your aftermarket Tach it'll read higher/lower. Isn't there a way of replicating a double hit? Maby I need a nap? I R not thinking right.


~Scott~

You're nuts.

It doesn't have the right pulse sequence. Even if it did, I don't think you could double it properly.

 

[THEMADTYPH00N]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Does something like this help at all?

http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_27_d_8522_8506_8521.htm

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Does something like this help at all?

http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_27_d_8522_8506_8521.htm

Nope. Doesn't match the pulse stream.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Nope. Doesn't match the pulse stream.

although i'm sure its not a cheap setup...i wonder what the innards look like.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

cap bolt holes....and the distributor hold down bolt. The assembly could serve as the hold down, and the sensor could mount to the cap bolts so you could still adjust the sensor when setting your base timing.

You must be a masochist... I want nothing to do with the hold-down bolt.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

although i'm sure its not a cheap setup...i wonder what the innards look like.

Magnet on the shaft, recessed in a hole. Gives you a pulse on #1 firing.

The late 4.3 cam sync dissy plug would be a better choice for mods, but again, you run into expense issues.

I'm thinking the clamp-on balancer ring is going to end up the winner.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Magnet on the shaft, recessed in a hole. Gives you a pulse on #1 firing.

The late 4.3 cam sync dissy plug would be a better choice for mods, but again, you run into expense issues.

I'm thinking the clamp-on balancer ring is going to end up the winner.

is there anything that you DON'T know? :lol: Good info for sure!

Does the sensor point in at the grooves in the ring, or does it point perpindicular to the entire ring?

 

[UR50SLO]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I guess I need to think in my head sometimes Never hurts to put it out there.

So... if we get a bolt on ring for the ballancer and the pickup all setup will all the factory Knock sensor/ESC circut functon as normal?

Is the Typhoon ESC any better/worse than the Buick's? Or are the basicly the same?
Sorry...trying to think this through.
~Scott

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

New pics/measurements:

Hood

That top bolt hole... PS bracket normally bolts there, no?

Wheel will need to be 6" diameter, otherwise it won't clear the existing timing pointer.

A simple flat bracket for the sensor may work... need to check the depth of the mag sensor.
Worst case, a couple spacers or a spacer plate behind it.

If you had one of those sensors at the store (3.0 l ford taurus, early 90s), you might check to see how it lines up. The steel part in the center of the sensor should be aligned with the inner ring.

Depth from the level of the inner ring to the block mounting holes would be a good measurement.

Bracket block attachment holes will have to be slotted, so that the air gap can be tweaked.
Maybe we can get by without it if the tolerances are close enough. Would be nice to have one less variable.

Gonna try to fiddle with this some more this weekend...

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

is there anything that you DON'T know? :lol: Good info for sure!

Does the sensor point in at the grooves in the ring, or does it point perpindicular to the entire ring?

You gotta remember, I've been piecing this together for *years*. I've looked at a lotta stuff related to this. It's only recently that all the right pieces became obvious.

There's more that can be done other than this, but I want to see this work first before someone modifies it.

The drawings you posted are pretty much how it's oriented. Sensor points to edge of the wheel.

I know you can get the wheel cut- do you have the resources to drill/tap the clamp bolt holes? It's kind of an odd angle/direction to drill. If you clamped the wheel halves into a vise in a Bridgeport, it'd be easy. Not sure what capabilities you have, or need to farm out.
I'm guessing you'd move quite a few of these.

I have no capacity to manufacture anything of this type... somebody's gonna have to pick up the ball there.

I can probably prototype a few plug-in harnesses, but we'll want to get somebody to make those up too, eventually.

The PROM changes, I can handle, for anyone that wants to convert.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

i can have all that made....its no problem. drilling/tapping is obviously going to incur more cost, but should still be cheaper than any other method.

I'd be willing to make the harnesses also, so at least it'd all be done by 1 company. I'm all for mass producing things...but we'll have to get a few proven setups before i'm willing to dump a lot of $ into this. I'm already negative a LOT from the other stuff i've made (partially my own fault), and would rather not keep going negative :lol:

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

i can have all that made....its no problem. drilling/tapping is obviously going to incur more cost, but should still be cheaper than any other method.

I'd be willing to make the harnesses also, so at least it'd all be done by 1 company. I'm all for mass producing things...but we'll have to get a few proven setups before i'm willing to dump a lot of $ into this. I'm already negative a LOT from the other stuff i've made (partially my own fault), and would rather not keep going negative :lol:

Negative sucks. If you can't come out slightly ahead, it ain't worth doing. Your time is worth something.

We'll get a few protos made, see how it goes. Hopefully between Hood and I, we can get some dimensions to you shortly.

Harnesses require special crimpers.... probably $300 worth of stuff. Then you've got the cost of terminals and connectors.... just so you know.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Negative sucks. If you can't come out slightly ahead, it ain't worth doing. Your time is worth something.

We'll get a few protos made, see how it goes. Hopefully between Hood and I, we can get some dimensions to you shortly.

Harnesses require special crimpers.... probably $300 worth of stuff. Then you've got the cost of terminals and connectors.... just so you know.

yup thats fine. i've got no problem incurring costs to do this. I'm just not going to make 50 kits to sell 3 of them.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

yup thats fine. i've got no problem incurring costs to do this. I'm just not going to make 50 kits to sell 3 of them.

You're gonna need to make more than 50, I'll bet.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

You're gonna need to make more than 50, I'll bet.

well we'll tackle that if/when the time comes. Stop posting and go figure this shit out! :lol: