Does your 9/11TC chatter?I've Got a TC bolt question.

S

sy2185

New member
Just wondering, my trans builder's instructions for installation mention that TC bolt lengths are critical and do vary. The consequence for not checking them is they'll bottom out on the TC and cause a little dimple on the outside of where the TCC operates, causing the TCC to chatter and slip when engaged as well as overheating(conv. always unlocked). I used my stock conv. bolts with ,my new 9/11, but I wonder if the people whose TCs chatter used the stock bolts and they're the rong length; or aftermarket ones. Any body have any input?
Jeremy
 
Hu Ryde

Hu Ryde

Donating Member
If you see that the bolt has bottomed out and it isnt tight yet, human nature says don't force it. At least it is for me. :roll:

That's my way of measuring.
 
Christian Dionne

Christian Dionne

Member
Maybe that's my problem. We used new stock TC bolts with the 9/11 and it never locked. I blamed it on tranny. Just rebuilt trans, and fixed wiring for TCC solenoid, and voila... no TCC. I wonder if that's my problem??? Just got it running this morning after boost valve fell into pan on initial startup last night. Went to drive today for 2 hours, and when I got there, trans fluid was cooked and TCC never locked up on whole trip. WTF?!?!?!

Blake, JohnWaller, anybody got a clue on this?
 
Christian Dionne

Christian Dionne

Member
Brian brought me home from Vero Beach 'cause it wasn't worth going to Miami without the truck. We're at my house now, deciding on what to do, probably Clicks on 436 and Howell Branch Rd. SyTy's suck! Jesse give me a call, 407-234-0093. The central FL Supra meet is this weekend, they're street racing later tonight.
 
B

Blake

Guest
Hey guys,
Common thing installers do is cut off a couple threads worth on TC bolts and clean it up so it runs into the converter's threaded pads easy and doesn't come anywhere near the converter.
NEVER use any kind of impact on them and torque them using blue or green locktite. Blue is easier to break lose later. Like Jesse said, if the bolt hits the converter, stop stop stop. Take a dremel and cut a couple threads off, clean it up and try again.
If you are putting in new bolts really pay attention to length. A dimple in the TC surface can be detrimental to TC clutch function. The clutch will hit the 3 dimples and chatter across them as it attempts to bend the clutch. A different problem with TC that can cause clutch failure is cocentric runout. This is a manufacturing problem. Basically if the apply plate of the housing isn't machined perfectly flat (coned shape), clutch apply won't be even and it will burn up the clutch/chatter. More common in custom housings. There are more. Sonnax has a technical series that list all kinds of problems. Whether the problem be in manufacture or installation or problem elsewhere in the trans(valves/pump).
Make sure you filled that TC up with tranny fluid and let it soak about an hour BEFORE you ran your truck. There are some sites out there with some info on proper TC installation and you'll find some on here if you search.

Forgot something. Your stock TC bolts will NOT hit the 9/11. If they've been replaced, they very well can. If your boost valve fell out, you only had it engaged in the first groove. MUST BE IN THE SECOND GROVE OR NOT ENOUGH PRESSURE IN SYSTEM. This happens a lot.
image048.jpg

Did you touch your TCC valve lineup in the pump?
Also make sure that you plugged your TCC clutch solenoid's wires are still plugged on to the pressure switches and that the connector on the top driver's side of the tranny is installed all the way and is not damaged.
Jesse is close to you and is THOROUGHLY familiar with the wiring and TCC solenoid layout. Take his help if he offers. He's knows more than some people would lead you to believe.
If you take the pan off, also push on the TCC valve. It should have some spring to it. If it does not move or sticks, take it out of the bore, clean it up with scotchbrite and carb cleaner and put it back in. You can see it in the pic over on the right. There is a "plate" with a hole in it over the snap ring. Make sure the valve in there can move.
I've talked with Jesse a little. Wish I lived down there closer to yous guys. The weather up here sucks ass. Cold, dry, snowy, windy.
Blake
 
Christian Dionne

Christian Dionne

Member
Someone tell me what their rpms are at 70mph and 85mph with the convertor unlocked. Ours are 3000 and 3500 respectively. This convertor always felt real loose to begin with. It wasn't brand new, but wasn't used either. We got it from a well known Buick vendor who received it from Bruce Toelle. So it did not have our name on it like some people's 9/11 :(

It would stall up to nearly 4000 on the brake, and that's with original crappy brakes and a PTE63E. So my guess is something wrong with convertor, not trans or wiring. My father has built over 1000 700r4's and the like and does not believe anything to the contrary.

And what was weird is after 2 hours on turnpike the shifts were still hard and banging, but it would barely accelerate. It probably vented a quart and the fluid was tan.

Now it sucks for me because the truck is over 2 hours away and I have to bring all the tools with me and do it on a dirt driveway. I knew I should have sent the TC to be looked at by JW when it was out for a few days.
 
B

Blake

Guest
You didn't say any of that other good info in your other posts :eek:
Your converter is fubar. If you can stall it up to 4000 on your brakes then it is most likely even higher than that. If you can't hardly get your truck to move but does eventually move as the rpms go up, the converter stall is crazy high. It's hard to get consistent rpms at 70 and 85 on our trucks with the TC unlocked because unless you are passing or going up a hill or lifting off the throttle, you'll be at a steady speed or accellerating and TC will be locked. Even at WOT our TC locks at 72mph. Someone on here can probably give you a an rpm at 70 or 85 but not with the converter unlocked.
If your fluid is burnt and venting out the top, you are gonna have to replace more than just the TC. Sounds like you got family that can hook you up there. As hot as you've got it, rubber parts are gonna be cooked and clutches are gonna be scuffed pretty good(your shifts will get sloppy/soft). I'm surprised you still had upshifts. When they get cooked as bad as what you are describing, it usually creates varnishes and valves stick.
Something I've learned. If a little voice in the back of your mind keeps aggrivating you, listen to him. At least once. He's probably right :D
If your boost valve "fell out". Please ask someone on here or go to your dad. If he's done that many, he can do it with his eyes closed. I got money says your dad probably don't even need a feeler gauge to measure clutch stack clearances.
Blake
 
Christian Dionne

Christian Dionne

Member
Blake, he did all the rebuild work. It was just accidental on his fault. He didn't really like the aftermarket boost valve anyhow. I'm just going to fix TC and change fluid. The shifts were still banging so I hope they'll be ok for awhile. I didn't hook up the fan on the massive tranny cooler I installed because we were pressed to get to Miami. That might of helped the situation, but probably not.

I really want to see how good the stock TC is with this setup. I'm sure with a bunch of timing and fueling tricks I can get it to spoolup.
 
Hu Ryde

Hu Ryde

Donating Member
Christian Dionne said:
I really want to see how good the stock TC is with this setup. I'm sure with a bunch of timing and fueling tricks I can get it to spoolup.
Click to expand...

With a 63 it's going to suck!
 
Christian Dionne

Christian Dionne

Member
You would probably be suprised on what a little tuning will do. I might try it just to for fun (while we're waiting on the 9/11 issue to be resolved). Keith has a stock TC in his but he just sucks at everything :)
Remember heads, cam, intake and headers are definately moving more air than normal. I love the driveablity of a stock TC, although the 4000 stall 9/11 did spool like a motherf*cker anyhow. You should ride in my friend's 4000lbs Fbody twin turbo 355, it makes 8psi on 1/4 throttle!
 
B

Blake

Guest
Don't beat yourself up on the fan. Wouldn't have helped. Big cooler won't make up for a rediculously high stall TC either. You sure you had lockup with the converter before? I've read your post a couple of times and can't help but think you've got a TC with no lockup. It's not that it doesn't work. It's that it never had it. They do make them that way and they WILL bolt right in :-?
Make sure you flush that thing out really good after you put new fluid in it. If you leave ANY burnt fluid in it, the new TC will chatter as well.
Blake
 
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