Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Chrisssssssss

New member
Well all, I finally saved a few bucks and am ready to get this thing rebuilt, among many others here. I need some help. Please read.

OK. Here's the deal. I have spent much time and effort, searching and reading post after post of rebuild or engine related questions, and basically just came up with a jumble of basically useless and outdated information on builds (both pre-build and post) some of which have lasted, some have not. There is not a good recipe that can be used as a reference model for our trucks. My goal is to build an engine that will hold together under the abuse that it will endure as a daily driver and also play hard on the weekends at the strip - or when you pull up beside another punk mustang at a red light on the way to the market for milk and eggs.

This is a long post that asks many questions and has a lot of choices to be made. I am calling out for any and all experiences that any one wants to offer that will help me compile a tried and true recipe and a guideline for others to follow hoping to increase the longevity, reliability, and performance in turn reducing the chance broken motors and another rebuild. I will then take all this information, sort through it, document it, list it with sources and current prices, pictures and more pictures, do's and don'ts where applicable, and post the results of the build. I am looking at this to be the best bang for buck value for MOST of us that need to rebuild the engines. I want to know everything that is needed to know to build the motor that can withstand reliably from a plain stock to average mods that the majority of us do. I think that if done correctly with the right parts and procedures and correct tuning, the internals should withstand all but the extreme crazy builds. There are some great products available and there are many people that have the same problems as I do. Need to know what works and what doesn't so I don't have to do this again anytime soon.

These trucks are complicated beasts and have a bad reputation to be jack-stand warriors which certainly adversely affects the resale value and collector desirability. I am hoping with the help from everyone here by providing this recipe as the tried and true, most reliable, longest lasting, less likely to detonate, powerful, thus prolonging intervals at which the trucks need to be on jack-stands due to engine rebuilds and failure. If this can be worked out I think it will help take the guesswork and questions out of a rebuild and maybe help future overall value of these trucks.

I plan on keeping my truck for a very long time. I will provide this information either this site, or separate website and maintain and update as necessary if better solutions are discovered as the process refines as time goes by.

I am also reaching out to the vendors / fabricators / manufacturers / suppliers of parts and pieces needed for this build. If any of you guys on that side of the table want to chime in and want to be the "go to source" for whatever portion(s) of this recipe then feel free to speak up here on what you got. If you think you have the best product available by providing products at the best overall bang for buck value in terms of reliability, performance, availability, and price then I will list contact information and link you to this guide as a source for the specific products and parts used here.

Thanks for reading my post here and if you made it this far, I think you get the basic Idea of what I am trying to do and I think that this will help out the whole group in some way by pooling our efforts to fine tune our rebuilds to last longer, be more reliable, and perform better. There is many different options and configurations out there, but I want one that just works. Come on people. It's time to put our heads together and figure this out. I will put this together and document it, but need the help of everyone to do it right. Do what you can.

See next for more details and specifics to my build. I appreciate any and all help that is received.

Cheers
Chris
 

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Fianally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Re: Fianally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

OK, Here's my questions and specifics to my build, but overall I think this will apply to most builds.

I will list below again everything that I know about the previous build so that all relevant information is present:

Really my main goal is to get the thing up and running back to functional. My thoughts are leaning towards just using the heads that I currently have and save the vortech conversion for a future project. BUT the other hand says that since I am at this point, would NOW be the time just to get it done and over with? I am concerned about this specifically because this is my main starting point because I am going to go out and either pick up a bare 4.3 block to use with my current heads, or a complete Vortech 4.3 engine to use as my starting point. So that decision has to be made first.

Next is to decide on the pistons and the rods to use. What is the best choice available for our trucks now a days? What is the best bang for the buck? I know that there are a great number of options to choose from, but what seems to work out the best and hold up to the punishment these engines seem to unleash?

Another situation is whether or not it is worth it to buy a set enough for a V8 rebuild. I have heard from a number of occasions that it may be beneficial in a number of ways to source out a kit designated for a 350 V8 small block and just have 2 extra of everything because of the fact that there are more choices to be had and sometimes can be had for similar pricing or actually cheaper in some cases if a kit deal can be found. This is something I am looking heavily into for the main reason that if for some reason I break something for whatever reason internally, I now have 2 spare parts of the exact same that I already have, you know...just in case.

What about Cranks? I know that this is also a main cause of concern for our engines and would like to know what the best option is. Let's here thoughts on what the best bang for buck options are that will hold together under pressure.

Bearings? I know that this is just as important to use good ones that last. What are the most popular choices in this case?

Camshaft? I need this replaced, opinions on camshaft options that would work best for this particular build? Same like the rest of the list here - bang for buck. What are the thoughts about what ideal cam to maximize performance and operation of the motor.

Now that all this is all here and out, feel free to suggest any and all information that I may have missed or whatever information and thoughts relevant to anything. I want to hear it. I am going to take everything into account and see if I can come up with the best bang for buck performance recipe for the purpose of compiling all the information in one place current as of now that someone can use when they are doing the same thing.

It is late, and I just wanted to get this thing rolling. I will be very active in this thread and post updates / add information / details as they come.

I am looking very forward to what everyone has to say, no matter how much or little they have to offer. I am thanking everyone in advance for any input or thoughts offered to help with the overall cause. I hope that this will be a success and be an asset to everyone.

Well. What say you?

Cheers
Chris
 

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Fianally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Re: Fianally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Here is my specifics on MY truck for reference.

*Stock block bored .030 over & all oil passages / drain ports were de-burred and smoothed out.
*Stock crank turned down .010 on the mains and .020 on the rods & micro polished.
*New L35 rods shot peened (sp?) for stress relief & machined to accept the Speed Pro floating pins.
*L35 heads slightly worked on the intake side and machined for larger springs.
*Ported stock intake
*Comp Cams springs
*GMPP billet steel 2 bolt main caps
*Z28 oil pump with welded pick-up
*Comp Cams double roller timing chain
*Speed Pro .030 over pistons with coated skirts
*Speed Pro rings
*GMPP 1.6 self align roller rockers
*ARP head studs
*ARP main studs
*GM head gaskets
*Stock cam
*Comp Cams push rods
*Edelbrock aluminum water pump
*Custom alternator bracket tensioner for a/c bracket removal
*Custom 3" down pipe with external wastegate
*B&M flex plate
*Turbo is a Garrett T3/T4 hybrid, 57 trim compressor wheel w/.60 a/r housing and a Turbonetics Stage V compressor wheel with a 5 bolt Turbonetics .63 a/r housing.
*MSD 6A
*MSD Blaster GM igniton coil
*Taylor spark plug wires
*50# fuel injectors
*Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
*TiAL external wastegate
*200amp alternator
*Air to water intercooler 86'd for custom Air to Air
*Razor progressive alky injection system
*Optima RedTop Battery
*Taurus (6,000cfm) Electric can w/Factory shroud
*GReddy Type R Blow Off Valve (mounted at lower Intercooler pipe facing down to avoid alky in engine bay)
*A/C removed w/non-A/C heater box and custom bracket
*PermaCool power steering cooler mounted under the radiator
*Permacool tranny cooler w/10" SPAL high flow fan
*HUGE front mount intercooler mounted behind factory grill
*Heat wrap on 3" downpipe
*Heat covers on plug boots
*Billet overflow catch can
*K&N cone air filter
*Ultimate V9 chip w/Gauge sized display/control
*Autometer Turbo boost gauge
*AEM Wideband O2 sensor with air/fuel ratio guage
*Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge
*Torque converter lock-up switch
*Walbro 255L/hr high flow fuel pump
*GReddy Profec B (Blue) Spec 2 boost controller


OK, so I am going to need for sure:
Block
Pistons
Rods
Rings
Bearings
Gaskets

I had a close look at the cam and I think that I will also include that in the list. It (stock) seems to have a bit of a bow to it when rolled down a flat surface, so it may as well get replaced.

So, given that list of what I had, I will be reusing pieces like the ARP's and oil pump, lifting rods and the like.

One main question that I have here is that since I am already ripping into this thing, is now the best time to do some Vortech's or should I stick with my already modded and ported L35's? Will the Vortech's make a huge difference? If it is the consensus that it is generally worth it, then I will probably opt for a oil burning re-buildable full long block vortech engine from a wrecker and that way I have a full engine to work with to rebuild.

Cheers
Chris
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Fianally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Re: Fianally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

*New L35 rods shot peened (sp?) for stress relief & machined to accept the Speed Pro floating pins.
*L35 heads slightly worked on the intake side and machined for larger springs.
*GMPP billet steel 2 bolt main caps
*Z28 oil pump with welded pick-up
*ARP head studs
*Stock cam
*Turbo is a Garrett T3/T4 hybrid, 57 trim compressor wheel w/.60 a/r housing and a Turbonetics Stage V compressor wheel with a 5 bolt Turbonetics .63 a/r housing.
*50# fuel injectors
*Ultimate V9 chip w/Gauge sized display/control

One main question that I have here is that since I am already ripping into this thing, is now the best time to do some Vortech's or should I stick with my already modded and ported L35's? Will the Vortech's make a huge difference? If it is the consensus that it is generally worth it, then I will probably opt for a oil burning re-buildable full long block vortech engine from a wrecker and that way I have a full engine to work with to rebuild.

IMO use something better than L35 rods, I would use forged eagle rods that most everyone uses.

You can always change the heads at a later time. Skip the ARP head studs and get normal ARP head bolts, studs mean you will have to pulled the motor get the heads off.

Is the Z28 Oil pump a high volume pump? If it is just skip it.

If you not going to use 4 bolt mains, just reuse your stock (the syty specific ones) nodular main caps.

If you planning on using off the shelf Ultimate 50# programs, stick with the combo that is available (ie stock heads.stock cam) or 412/Vortec.

If you going to do a custom tune (highly recommend), I would recommend a better cam and use 60# Motron injectors.

I not quite sure why your using the turbo you have listed. My inital though it sounds like its sized for 2L motor. I would pick up a PTE and have something that bolts on, rather than dealing with 5 bolt flange to a 4 bolt t3 flange out stock manifold have. You will probably have to deal with the trying to make the Oil/coolant lines work as well. I think their a couple PTE Turbo FS right now in the classifieds.
 

gkrcr882

SyTyless......for now!
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

As mentioned, go for the Vortec conversion if you can, it will never be easier than now.

Eagle rods
JE pistons
Vortec conversion
50# inj
larger turbo
A2A (if you can swing it)
3bar MAP
custom tune.
412 cam


with that as a rough (although incomplete) template, you should be able to have a long lasting, powerful build. The key is in the tune, and providing every piece of information to the person making the tune, since it will make a world of difference.
 

turbodig

Active member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

I am calling out for any and all experiences that any one wants to offer that will help me compile a tried and true recipe and a guideline for others to follow hoping to increase the longevity, reliability, and performance in turn reducing the chance broken motors and another rebuild.

If you want reliability and ease, leave the system as it is. Put a set of nice forged pistons in, hone to fit, and be done.

Everybody dogs the stock rods, but I've yet to see an actual picture of a stock rod failing where something else didn't fail first. I've seen pictures of Eagles wrapped around a crank too, but it wasn't their fault. Are you gonna make 500 HP with them? No. Are you gonna have a 500 HP v6 motor that isn't going to require a lot of maintenance and break a lot of parts? No.

Add to this an alcohol system and a decent stock chip tune... it'll run a long time, and perform quite well. (Mid-high 12s)

Most of all, you'll have something you can drive, enjoy, and won't be fixing all the time.

If you're intent on throwing the speed-shop catalog at it, get your mind set right. It's going to cost you a lot more money than you initially planned, will require lots of time to get dialed in properly, and will eat up drivetrain parts.
 

Icarus-54

Donating Old Member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

I agree with Dig,but since it's apart,I would have the crank and rods(stock or L-35's)cyro treated than later if you decide to go nuts with it,you got it covered.
Jack
 

syclone3

Member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

I think he means its a 5 bolt outlet on the turbine housing. Not a 5 bolt inlet. All T3 turbine housings are based on the rectangular 4 bolt design the trucks stock manifolds utilize.
 

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Ok guys,

Thanks for all the replies so far. I will try and address the comments so far and give a bit of an update for something I looked at today.

First I will tell you what I looked at and I would like some advise on this option:

I looked at a fully loaded 94 blazer LT 4DR 4x4 that was in a local wrecking yard that I think may fit my needs and a bit more...

It has the Vortech motor in it brought in at 150000KM on it as running, but the motor has a tick to it (so I am told) and he does not feel comfortable and cannot sell the motor as fully functional, so basically it is just a core - re-builder which works for me. The truck was just recently brought in and has minimal rust and a fully loaded black leather int and power everything. The truck is in relatively good shape and will take whatever parts out of it to use as spares and then just get rid of the shell.

So it looks like I have a descent Vortech core motor to use as my base. I will try and pick it up before the weekend. I am picking the entire truck up for $500 and could get roughly 1/3 of that back when I take the shell to the squish. So I will update when I pick it up.
 

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Crap, just hit the wrong button and lost everything that I just wrote, so here it goes again...

Also just to point out for as a recap for those that have been here for a while. My truck was MotorMouth's truck that he sold to Jer. Jer sold to Huggles - imported it to Canada. I bought the truck from Huggles just over a year ago.

Here's the links to what happened:
http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61725



So it looks as if I am going to go the Vortech route. I will look closer into what is exactly involved in this mod and I believe there is a few documented procedures available. I will pass this information onto the machine shop that will be building my engine. Updates to follow...

Now, onto the pistons and Rods... What has been the best combo that people have tried? I have read and heard very good things about the eagle rods and think that will be one of the main key areas that really need the beef. The L35's may be okay to use for a stockish rebuild, but this is where my engine failed and I think that it is certainly advisable to put some fairly strong H or I beam rods. Could somebody please confirm and provide the correct part numbers of the eagle units. Are there different options like being H or I beam rods and which would be the more advisable choice. I guess that the piston that is used in conjunction with the rod makes a difference also.

Pistons: I had Speedpro units previously, but whatever. What is the main ones used here now? I hear a vote for the JE pistons and would like some input on those. What would be the correct units and specs of the JE units that would match the aforementioned Eagle Rods. Is there a specific unit for our particular application? Can somebody please point out the differences in the units and what is ideal for our application. Part numbers? What is the ideal combination between piston and rod specifications? Is there a certain set-up that would provide the best option overall that would stand out amongst others? I remember hearing something about clearance issues with rods and block with some combinations that would have to be addressed to function correctly. Can someone confirm this? I would especially like to hear about the piston and rod combination possibilities and really want to make sure that there is a winning combination that works best.

Next to the crank. Cyro? Billet? Cast? off-set? balanced? nitrided? forged? WTF? What does this all mean to me? If you keep in mind the piston and rod choice, what is the thoughts and reasons for a crank choice? Is there a difference in crank between the regular 4.3 and the turbo (syty) crank? what about the vortech crank? I seem to recall some buzz recently about a crank that was in the $300 area that is newly available that may be the bang for buck leader (Scat?). What gives? What exactly do we need to keep everything together internally spinning properly and reliably without fear of snapping, walking, or just plain vibrating itself apart? Is cyro and nitriding treatments necessary? Is there any thoughts against these treatments with regards to possible adverse effects or risks of ?? What are the thoughts here with regards to the crank? What about the stock one if it was just polished and treated (cyro and nitrided) vs these aftermarket units? What are the thoughts here?

More later...
 

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Hey there,

Well, I am still looking for a couple of questions answered and some info before I can continue on my merry way. I would like to know the part numbers for the je pistons and eagle rods that would be the proper combo for the build. What about sources?

The crank? Still looking for info on that too.

Please bear with me and help me out a bit... I will make sure that I document the build in detail when I am done and I would like to know the best way to go so I can help steer others in the proper direction when they need rebuild information. Can someone please help with some info?

I will do as much searching as possible, but would really like to make sure that I am doing it right.

Thanks again.
 
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

That isn't the Vortec engine they were referring to. The 94 "Vortec" is the pretty much the same as what came in SoGT's. May be LB4 heads like on a SyTy, or it may have L35 heads. What it doesn't have is the Vortec heads that everyone swaps to. You may want to research some more, then weigh your options.

Vortech makes superchargers, not engines.
 

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

Thank you for the information. I haven't bought it yet, but I was still thinking about it.

That's what I wanted to hear. I have searched, but the information is all over the place and I really could not find that info that was very clear. This is why I want to make the guide for everyone to see. Is there a particular year or motor that I am looking for? I still have my original (but not stock) L35 heads that my ty already came with. The L35's were fairly worked over and ported so I still have these to use instead of the vortec heads off of this one.

OK, now I know why I didn't find much about the "VORTECH" heads... Duh... Now that I searched for "VORTEC" heads, it seems to be a bit better in the results area. In this search, I found Michael REnz's website that has much of the information that I am looking for. I am glad I found that. I have searched a bunch before and have never stumbled upon his website. Very good.

As for the Vortech thing... I claim stupidity on that one. Usually I am fairly particular and careful about those things, but this one pulled one over on me. But now that this momentary lapse in judgement, I will study his website and report back with any further questions.

As for the '94 Blazer... I am undecided on that one as of right now. I will think on that overnight and see what I can come up with. However, the Whole fairly minty (except for front bumper) LT model with mint black leather interior and overhead console, 4.3L motor (well at least the block anyways...) and nice tailgate (Will it fit? Mine has a bit of rust and this one is in better shape...) and the rest of the things like window motors and that kind of stuff may make it worthwhile. The two front Mint black leather power captains chairs could be worth it alone.

Any quick thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks for your help there. I feel better now that I found that VORTECH/VORTEC thing out. Hmmm. I am really surprised that slid past me. My head is spinning on this project and I have a feeling that it will not stop any time in the near future.

Cheers
Chris
 

ghettosled

SYTY SUPERSTORE
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

i'll be perfectly honest, and please dont take it wrong but you are already in over your head. You are totally confused attempting to build something you really dont have any business building. Odds are 10-1 that if you try and build it yourself you will be way over budget and IF you get it running properly it will be years down the road.

Here's my advice. Come up with a realistic budget and call Campbell Automotive. Talk to Nolan and let him build you a turn key project. If it can be done, he will take care of you. This way it fits within your budget criteria, and it will be dyno tuned with the stock computer and ready to go once delivered. I know you think you can piece it together yourself cheaper but trust me, i doubt it. If your time is worth anything, the time its gonna take you to figure it all out, shop for the cheapest prices from companies A-Z you can spend doing something more productive and let a professional take care of you. Let them decide what you need and whats been proven to work for them. Having several people machine, assemble, tune etc leads to one thing: when something goes wrong each one is gonna give you the middle finger. Since there is never any warranty with these motors the closest thing you can get to a warranty is buy something turn key that does exactly as promised and has lived to tell about it.. Its up to you to not turn up the boost to 25psi on 91 octane from there out,

If your trying to learn or be involved with the build process, start with something easy like a N/A carburated 350 V8. Even professionals like myself struggle with these trucks often and we have been around them since the early 90s. Put it this way its gonna cost you well over $10k no matter how you slice it. Whats an extra couple grand to pretty much guarantee you a solid reliable 500hp (or whatever). I cant tell you how many $20k builds we get stuck trying to fix that run worse then stock trucks. Some have to start from near scratch, and now they got $35k into it or flat ran out of money.
 

turbodig

Active member
Re: Finally ready to rebuild. Need Suggestions. Please read.

i'll be perfectly honest, and please dont take it wrong but you are already in over your head. You are totally confused attempting to build something you really dont have any business building. Odds are 10-1 that if you try and build it yourself you will be way over budget and IF you get it running properly it will be years down the road.

Here's my advice. Come up with a realistic budget and call Campbell Automotive. Talk to Nolan and let him build you a turn key project. If it can be done, he will take care of you. This way it fits within your budget criteria, and it will be dyno tuned with the stock computer and ready to go once delivered. I know you think you can piece it together yourself cheaper but trust me, i doubt it. If your time is worth anything, the time its gonna take you to figure it all out, shop for the cheapest prices from companies A-Z you can spend doing something more productive and let a professional take care of you. Let them decide what you need and whats been proven to work for them. Having several people machine, assemble, tune etc leads to one thing: when something goes wrong each one is gonna give you the middle finger. Since there is never any warranty with these motors the closest thing you can get to a warranty is buy something turn key that does exactly as promised and has lived to tell about it.. Its up to you to not turn up the boost to 25psi on 91 octane from there out,

If your trying to learn or be involved with the build process, start with something easy like a N/A carburated 350 V8. Even professionals like myself struggle with these trucks often and we have been around them since the early 90s. Put it this way its gonna cost you well over $10k no matter how you slice it. Whats an extra couple grand to pretty much guarantee you a solid reliable 500hp (or whatever). I cant tell you how many $20k builds we get stuck trying to fix that run worse then stock trucks. Some have to start from near scratch, and now they got $35k into it or flat ran out of money.

I'd reply to this, but it's so true to fact that there's nothing to add.
 
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