Gains from air to air intercooler?

[FastBlackTA]

Hello,

I have a low mileage (27000k) 91 sy that I'm looking to make a little more fun to drive...stock its fun but I'd like to make it a little faster. I'd like to eventually go to the track and run 11's on the stock internals if possible.

I've been looking into getting an air to air intercooler (I've been out of the syclone loop for a while...I guess kenne bell makes one?). Stock my truck ran 13.6 @ 9x??? I forget the MPH on a 1.7x 60'

Now I have the ultimate chip, a warlboro pump, and a KB cold air intake along with underdrive pulleys (which I might get rid of). I have not run the truck like this.

If I got a nice air to air intercooler, what kind of times might I see out of my sy? I have some torco fuel additive which I can boost the octane rating up to about 107, so I am assuming that I could run the T2 setting at the highest possible boost? I have a tech 1 so I can check for knock retard.

I also have one more question (I know that this is long winded, sorry)..

I might also purchase a stall converter for this truck. I'd like to buy one that I could also use for my furute plans of installing a turbo/downpipe/headers kit on this truck. Any recomendations? Any idea as to how much this would help me in the 1/4?

Thanks a bunch!
Conrad

 

[Stangbeater]

Re: Gains from air to air intercooler?

Hello,

I have a low mileage (27000k) 91 sy that I'm looking to make a little more fun to drive...stock its fun but I'd like to make it a little faster. I'd like to eventually go to the track and run 11's on the stock internals if possible.

I've been looking into getting an air to air intercooler (I've been out of the syclone loop for a while...I guess kenne bell makes one?). Stock my truck ran 13.6 @ 9x??? I forget the MPH on a 1.7x 60'

Now I have the ultimate chip, a warlboro pump, and a KB cold air intake along with underdrive pulleys (which I might get rid of). I have not run the truck like this.

If I got a nice air to air intercooler, what kind of times might I see out of my sy? I have some torco fuel additive which I can boost the octane rating up to about 107, so I am assuming that I could run the T2 setting at the highest possible boost? I have a tech 1 so I can check for knock retard.

I also have one more question (I know that this is long winded, sorry)..

I might also purchase a stall converter for this truck. I'd like to buy one that I could also use for my furute plans of installing a turbo/downpipe/headers kit on this truck. Any recomendations? Any idea as to how much this would help me in the 1/4?

Thanks a bunch!
Conrad

Take the underdrive pulleys and throw them as far as you can. Please read as much as you can on Sy's and ty's before you break something. Then you will asking for a good engine builder in your area.

 

[ticlone]

From your begining point, I'd do the safety mods: AFPR, fuel pump upgrade, basic tune-up, scan tool and than Alky injection and tune from there.

My 2 cents.

 

[JustBeachin]

Also, go read up on Octane booster.

There is no way that adding a little bottle of stuff that you buy from the auto parts store is gonna boost your octane up to 107.

Go read up on Xylene and Toluene and their use in boosting octane.

 

[FastBlackTA]

guys,

I have done pretty much everything listed. The truck does have a adj fp regulator as well..and like I said the underdrive pulleys are about to be on their way out. I recently did a tune up on the truck.

For the record, I have done plenty of reading about syclone and typhoons in the past. I've had this truck since 1993. All I asked was a simple couple questions about what gains might I get from a couple mods. I dont see how an intercooler and stall will put me in a situation where I'll be rebuilding another motor...but maybe I am wrong?

As far as the torco octane booster: Ive done plenty of reseach on xylene and tolulene. This is NOT an additive that you buy at the "local auto parts store". I've used torco products and have had great success...I use their fuel exclusively in my stock bottom end trans am which i hit 260 hp shot of nitrous through a system I built. I think you might want to look into this stuff yourself. The reason I like it is that it enables me to run an unleaded fuel in this truck...it is hard to find unleaded 100+ fuel in my area. I tuned my TA for open loop so i run 120 leaded for the nitrous enrichment fuel cell...so its never been an issue for me in the past.

I'd like to get a little feedback about how to get my truck to run a little faster....I dont think that its out of the question for somebody to run 11's on stock internals...but this is an eventual goal. Thanks.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Gains from air to air intercooler?

Obviously you want to make sure your truck is running properly (with a scan tool) With the mods you have, basically reliability mods, and tuning it can mids 12's as it is. You just gotta make sure everything is running properly (ie IC working properly) and it isn't pinging it way down the track or with lots of Knock retard. SyTy motor are fragile so its its not up to par, your going to blow the motor while trying for 11's.

When you have it running that quick, put in a PTE downpipe & turbo kit with a bigger turbo and an appropriate stall converter and it will run high 11's as long as it is running properly.

If you look in the racing section their are few examples of other Sy's doing this. I probably wouldn't do an air to air unless until you add a larger turbo, you still run 11's on the stock IC.

 

[FastBlackTA]

there is a water pump for the intercooler that will boost flow correct? it is made by jabsco? does this mod really help?

thanks
conrad

 

[Syclone#1992]

The only two people that come to mind running 11's on a stock motor are Dig and Tookycat (sure there are more). Dig is awsome at tuning these trucks, and has it down to a science. Tooky has the disputed L35 block, that many don't consider a "stock" block anymore except in some of the Typhoons. Tooky has only run his truck for a half a season too.

Reaching 11's with out forged material and four bolt mains and all the other goodies is far fetched IMO. Barry T. tried it and went through a ton of motors. Seems there is more failure stories than success stories when trying to accomplish a goal like this. 12's are becoming more and more popular on stock motors and are somewhat easy to acheive.

When you keep pushing a truck for every last 1/4 of a second and keep pushing it, something is bound to break. The bad thing with turbo vehicles, you can simply keep pushing them until you do. Everyone gets that question "what if I turn up the boost a little more" "just a little more" until it accually blows up.

There is always a risk in gaining performance. The question you have to ask yourself is are you a gambling man?

 

[FastBlackTA]

thanks for the reply....i didn't know that it was that far fetched to run 11's on stock internals (us ls1 guys have it easy, i'm looking to go 10.20-10.30 on a stock bottom end m6 car )

I'm assuming it would be all that expensive to put a forged motor together for one of these trucks.....but now looks like i'll push it to the limit with the stock stuff until it is turbo time...

thanks again...

 

[Turbo6]

Run good gas, dont let it go lean and dont go crazy on the timing and you will be fine.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

there is a water pump for the intercooler that will boost flow correct? it is made by jabsco? does this mod really help?

There are three pumps out there that are used thur out the syty community. Here's a link to read up/purchase them. http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/

Personly I use the Jabsco but everyone says the cheeper Johnson pump out performs the other two so Im gonna try that one when the time comes again. As for improvements over the stocker.. I can't remember how much but I think it was about 10 degrees or so difference in temps but not sure. In any case the stocker sucks balls, upgrade if you don't go air2air!

 

[ghettosled]

your biggest performance gain is going to come from the turbo upgrade. Size depends on the stall. MOSt go with 2800-3000 which will handle most of the small shaft upgrades (TE series) You have several choices. Depending on how efficient your intercooler system is working the A/A could be worth little or alot. On average we drop 30-50 degrees across the board by switching to an air/air system. Every 10 degrees at the intake is worth close to 10 hp.. Although many people claim to get their stock intercoolers to work well, once you start pushing more boost it simply cant keep up. Sure you can make it look good in cold weather by idling it around, but get in and out of 20psi on a warm day and you will be hard pressed to see the temps stay low. By the time you add electric fans, larger pumps, more hoses, and auxilary coolers to try and compete with an air/air, your money is better spent upgrading to the air/air in the first place. The only time an A/L is going to out do a A/A is for 100% drag race with an ice chest. Keep in mind there are several companies besides KB who make IC kits.

Sounds to me like you are ready for the turbo/ic/converter step.

As for 11s on stock motor, there are more then 2 people doing it. LIke philip said, as long as you keep the octane up and the deto/temps down you will be fine. However at those power levels there will be a limited lifespan on hardparts.

 

[Buster]

Re: Gains from air to air intercooler?

Hello,

I have a low mileage (27000k) 91 sy that I'm looking to make a little more fun to drive...stock its fun but I'd like to make it a little faster. I'd like to eventually go to the track and run 11's on the stock internals if possible.

I've been looking into getting an air to air intercooler (I've been out of the syclone loop for a while...I guess kenne bell makes one?). Stock my truck ran 13.6 @ 9x??? I forget the MPH on a 1.7x 60'

Now I have the ultimate chip, a warlboro pump, and a KB cold air intake along with underdrive pulleys (which I might get rid of). I have not run the truck like this.

If I got a nice air to air intercooler, what kind of times might I see out of my sy? I have some torco fuel additive which I can boost the octane rating up to about 107, so I am assuming that I could run the T2 setting at the highest possible boost? I have a tech 1 so I can check for knock retard.

I also have one more question (I know that this is long winded, sorry)..

I might also purchase a stall converter for this truck. I'd like to buy one that I could also use for my furute plans of installing a turbo/downpipe/headers kit on this truck. Any recomendations? Any idea as to how much this would help me in the 1/4?

Thanks a bunch!
Conrad

All you need is a PTE63E & 2800 stall if your looking for 11's. You will be a little understalled, but it makes for good 60's. As for intercoolers, I've tried almost every intercooler know to man, and the only intercooler that made a dramatic different was the dequick FM, but I ran into cooling problems with that system.

Here are the intercoolers I've owned & tested:

KB - Slightly better than stock but no major improvement
RPM - Slightly better than KB but no major improvement
Stock -
Modified Stocker - Slightly better than stock but no major improvement
Dequick 2 core FM - Dramatic improvement - example with 15 psi I would see 0 degree increase from start to finish (1/4 mile)
No intercooler and alky injection - Headache,

 

[ed hess]

since no one actually answered your question i will

i have been told 3 or 4 thenths for that mod alone... given everyting else is in the right combination.

ed

btw i will find out for myself real soon as i just did a2a this past week.

 

[blk00z28]

This is the answer I got from Mad Mike about what he's got done to his Sy to make it run mid-high 11's

Original 22K motor. TE-45 turbo, 9/11(2800 stall) Coverter, STG Ultimate chip with 3 bar map, AFPR, ATR Headers (don't buy), stock downpipe, cat delete, atr exhaust, atr aux intercooler and walboro fuel pump. Stock injectors.

He's gone 11.75 @ 114 with that setup. I think he might have the lowest mile sy with the fastest times on a stock motor.

 

[FastBlackTA]

thanks for all the replys guys....i i have a better direction now..

ghettosled: you might be getting a call from me in the near future...

 

[dgoodhue]

This is the answer I got from Mad Mike about what he's got done to his Sy to make it run mid-high 11's

Original 22K motor. TE-45 turbo, 9/11(2800 stall) Coverter, STG Ultimate chip with 3 bar map, AFPR, ATR Headers (don't buy), stock downpipe, cat delete, atr exhaust, atr aux intercooler and walboro fuel pump. Stock injectors.

He's gone 11.75 @ 114 with that setup. I think he might have the lowest mile sy with the fastest times on a stock motor.

I think Turbo6 (Phillip Long) has the title of quickest stock short block. he hasn't run a 1/4 mile, but his 1/8 is .45 sec and 5mph quicker than what Mad Mike ran. I would shocked if it didn't run quicker than 11.3's.