Help! Lack of power.

The Bronze

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

I haven't looked at the data yet, but it sure is 1000x better to have the hole file to view. You can download the file to a file sharing site and give us the link.

www.mediafire.com is a great site that others here use.
 

chuckyuen

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

I'm pretty sure it's a 2bar map sensor, and the truck came with a pitbull chip when I bought it.
 

The Bronze

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

Your BARO reads right (assuming you are near sea level and all that). Vacuum at idle is a bit low, and the idle air control is closing the valve all the way to bring the idle down. That likely means you have a vacuum leak or the throttle plate stop has been tinkered with. IMO you should have a 15 count sitting at idle. Your ECM has no further idle reduction left at this point. I don't think this has much to do with your problem though, just an observation and I wouldn't chase this yet.

When you open the throttle in P/N, MAP should momentarily rise followed by a drop as the vacuum actually increases. In your case, the MAP quickly rises and stabilizes at ~98kpa. A restriction is the most likely cause, assuming your MAP vacuum line is connected to manifold vacuum, that vacuum line doesn't have a tear in it that opens up when you rev the motor or something crazy like that. Even if that was the case, the ECM "sees" a bigger load and should apply more fuel anyways, so it's not like it is starving for fuel.

I would pull the O2 sensor (or if you feel spunky, you can drop the CAT) and see if it will rev up better with the reduced restriction. If it does, you need a catalyst. Check the intake system well if the exhaust appears to be okay. I have painted an air filter to demonstrate an intake restriction, and it mirrors an exhaust restriction. If those two are not the problem it is ignition/cam timing. Seriously, it is a mechanical issue, not a fuel/ECM issue.
 

chuckyuen

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

The Bronze, thanks for the quick response. I did find a vacuum leak in the elbow of the air intake elbow that feeds a vacuum line to the throttle body. Fixed that, but you can still smell a lot of unburnt gas coming out of the exhaust. I think the plugs might be fouled as a result of the truck running rich due to the vacuum leak. I did pull one of the plugs and it was pretty black. Gonna replace the plugs tomorrow and see if that helps. Any thoughts?
 

The Bronze

New member
Let me try this another way: Your MAP is telling you that you have a mechanical problem in moving air. A good tech WILL skip the plugs, wires, fuel pump, grounds, alternator and tire pressure. He WILL verify exhaust back pressure. He would use a gauge in place of the O2 sensor. 2.5psi at 2500rpms MAX. YOU Should remove the O2 and see if it idles better and revs cleaner, or drop the CAT and test it that way. Once you find the restriction, you can clean the like-new but fouled plugs with a propane torch until the tip glows red ($0.50 in propane) or buy new plugs if they don't clear up on their own.

Honestly, I will beat my head on my smartphone if you do anything else at this time.
 

chuckyuen

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

Ok, looks like I'm gonna drop the cat or pull the O2 sensor tomorrow and try that. Thanks The Bronze.
 

berzerker

wookie
Re: Help! Lack of power.

check the turbo to see if it spins freely , then check if all the cylinders are firing effectively . make sure no dead cylinders . spray water on all the exhaust manifold ports after the engine has been running for a minute or so . if the water sizzles on each cylinder port then your cylinders are firing . then i would go for fuel pressure / supply issue next .
 

T-Bone

Active member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

....then i would go for fuel pressure / supply issue next .

Watching this with interest to see if my suggestion was close. In time, you will find the cause but it can be somewhat aggravating.

.
 

chuckyuen

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

Ok, so I tried to pull out the cat today but it wouldn't budge. The only way I could get it off would be to cut it off, so since I didn't know if it was bad or not, I didn't want to destroy it. I unbolted the exhaust from the cat back, and then pulled out the O2 sensor and unplugged it. The car ran great after doing that. Revved up strong and the rich smell went away. It didn't build up any boost on the boost gauge, went from -20 at idle to -10 when revving it. So my assumption now is that the cat is bad.
 

Damian

Member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

I think a bad cat is my culprit now after it spewed oil out the exhaust when I blew up a piston. Mine doesn't build full boost like it used to. Everything else is new on mine.
 
Re: Help! Lack of power.

I think a bad cat is my culprit now after it spewed oil out the exhaust when I blew up a piston. Mine doesn't build full boost like it used to. Everything else is new on mine.

Hi

Use a temp gauge and messure the temp before and after the catalysator
if the temprature in front of the cat is higher then after the cat is plugged.
You can also messure the pressure in front and back of the cat ,you have to drill a hole in the exhaust tube and use a pressure gauge, if its plugged the pressure in front is higher

:tup:
 

Damian

Member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

I have a temp laser gauge at home that I haven't used in years, hopefully it still works.
 

Throws

Active member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

I think a bad cat is my culprit now after it spewed oil out the exhaust when I blew up a piston. Mine doesn't build full boost like it used to. Everything else is new on mine.

I thought mine was a cause for a few issues I was having... It was a fairly substantial improvement after I pulled the original cat off... .20 years after it went on.

w00t!

-P-
 

Damian

Member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

The only thing that sucks about mine is that my whole turbo back is one piece. I need to fix that.
 

The Bronze

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

Watching this with interest to see if my suggestion was close. In time, you will find the cause but it can be somewhat aggravating.

.

I owned this diagnosis.

If the engine can't free rev to 4k, it sure sounds more basic engine and less turbo related.

When you open the throttle in P/N, MAP should momentarily rise followed by a drop as the vacuum actually increases. In your case, the MAP quickly rises and stabilizes at ~98kpa. A restriction is the most likely cause...I would pull the O2 sensor (or if you feel spunky, you can drop the CAT) and see if it will rev up better with the reduced restriction. If it does, you need a catalyst. Check the intake system well if the exhaust appears to be okay. I have painted an air filter to demonstrate an intake restriction, and it mirrors an exhaust restriction. If those two are not the problem it is ignition/cam timing. Seriously, it is a mechanical issue, not a fuel/ECM issue.

I bring this up as a reminder how much better a driveability question can be answered with adaquate information. A datamaster file attached to a driveability question sure can narrow down the possibilities quickly. I did this one while eating a bowl of cereal and watching netflix. :lol:

Testing backpressure isn't a science. I have a $150 back-pressure kit. I also have a $12.00 kit. The most important thing to remember is that you test the vehicle during the same conditions as when the problem occurs. Doing this test at idle is foolish unless the catalyst is almost completely plugged. The second most important thing is to avoid drilling into the exhaust. The typical screw or rivet that most use last a couple weeks at best. For the effort it takes to weld the hole closed (which I do if I can't remove the O2 sensor), it is a no-brainer to remove the sensor. The change in fuel trim will do zilch to the pressure.

e62a518a.jpg


I rigged this up with a sparkplug antifouler and some misc fittings laying around. Connect this to a rather long vacuum line, connect a cheapo-vacuum/pressure gauge and throw this in the car and take it for a spin. I don't diagnose the cat in the stall, I just touch the carpet with the loud-pedal for a few seconds out in the parking lot.

Here is the back-pressure gauge. Nothing extra here but a yellow and red line to say what is bad. 2.5psi at 2500 rpm is a problem. 2.5psi at any load is a problem. I never see over 1.5-2 psi at any load on your typical grocery getter. I don't usually pull this one out. I have better luck with my cheapy gauge. Both bounce around at idle when there is no backpressure due to the push/suck rythmn going on. Once there really is a bit of pressure, they both read fine. Plus, the expensive gauge doesn't have a long enough hose for a drive.

94ca8b79.jpg



Also, testing catalysts with a temperature gauge is old-tech that hasn't proven out very well. 100s of cats tested with only a solid couple handfuls that really seemed significantly hotter.A gas analyzer is really the only solid way to ensure the catalyst is not working. The temperature test certainly doesn't ID a plugged catalysts well. :2cents:
 

chuckyuen

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

The Bronze, thanks for helping me out on this one. If you're ever in Hawaii I'll buy you a drink.
 

The Bronze

New member
Re: Help! Lack of power.

Hi

You can also messure the pressure in front and back of the cat ,you have to drill a hole in the exhaust tube and use a pressure gauge, if its plugged the pressure in front is higher

:tup:

Drilling a hole after the catalyst is a great idea if the upstream pressure is higher than spec, but only if there is still a muffler or resonator that could capture the catalyst pieces and create the problem there. It certainly doesn't need to be drilled until a problem has been identified. Best practice is to drill the post catalyst hole in the outlet of the catalyst. It is going to be the problem 95% of the time anyways and will be replaced. No extra hole needs to be welded that way.
 
Top