Intake Option For Vortec Heads

S

SnakeEater

Sleep Dog Racing
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

Whats the MM on the wilsons mani elbow??? what all do I need to do this mod?? already have heads...any good write ups on this???
 
qbnkiller

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

I am working on the full package to sell this...it's going to take me a couple of weeks..probably first of the year...

Thanks,

Alex

PS: 90mm on the TB
 
qbnkiller

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

...yes, I have actually been working with hellbents10 to bring this here.
 
S

SnakeEater

Sleep Dog Racing
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

qbnkiller said:
I am working on the full package to sell this...it's going to take me a couple of weeks..probably first of the year...

Thanks,

Alex

PS: 90mm on the TB
Click to expand...


You say your going to sell this complete?? all i would have to do is install or would there be some modding on my part?? Im very interested in doing this, please keep us posted on a price.....90mm is nice, would i be able to use a ls2 throttle body with this.....MAN that set up is nice......
 
2

2kwik4u

Resident slow guy
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

Several of the guys on s-seriesforum.com have done this as well...I know of at least another 3 that exist.....Definately a cool alternative.
 
qbnkiller

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

the TB is a WILSON 90mm Ford-style. From what I can see, the custom parts are going to be:

Fuel into the fuel rail
AFPR
wiring the TPS (I am going to look into a pigtail - easy hook-up)

Intake gaskets should be stock VORTEC units. It's kinda nice with this setup...you can plumb into the spacer beneath the Wilson elbow and tap for your vacuum. You can also do a nitrous crossbar and either spray n2o or meth. You can turn the elbow any which way you want for intake setup. You can move to a different intercooler (like I am) and avoid the heat from the turbo altogether from heat-soaking the intake tract. Lotsa options.

LMK through PM's if interested...will post more as I get further...

Alex
 
Tommyquest

Tommyquest

The Member's Member
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

NASTETy92 (Nick) has already done this.
This is a great setup. Nick has made crazy power with low boost/timing
Check out the pics here http://www.northeastsyty.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Engine-pics-1-5-04
Pdr_0013.jpg

All said and done ~$1400
 
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R

Revolution

New member
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

I have to throw in my two cents but you should really allready know this. That intake and that elbow will not be worth a spit unless you are pushing a massive amount of boost and huge injectors to flow that throttle body. It's like a midget farting in a 60 gallon drum.. I have allready done preliminary flow testing due to the fact I too am working on manufacuring that intake. But I am using a much smaller throttle body and a totally diffrent setup to keep the air from crashing down and causing too high a static loss when the air crashes against the bottom of the plentum.

All I will say is if you are using anything larger than 65 mm T.B. You better be moving some serious air though those heads. And from my experience with the S10 clan.. I only know a few and this is a very small few that have done it. If you have good port work which alot of sy ty guys do.. you might be able to take advantage of this. But I still can't calc out volumetric efficency for a 90 mm throttle body on an engine barely close to 300 ci.

Thats my .02
 
M

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

Revolution said:
I have to throw in my two cents but you should really allready know this. That intake and that elbow will not be worth a spit unless you are pushing a massive amount of boost and huge injectors to flow that throttle body. It's like a midget farting in a 60 gallon drum.. I have allready done preliminary flow testing due to the fact I too am working on manufacuring that intake. But I am using a much smaller throttle body and a totally diffrent setup to keep the air from crashing down and causing too high a static loss when the air crashes against the bottom of the plentum.

All I will say is if you are using anything larger than 65 mm T.B. You better be moving some serious air though those heads. And from my experience with the S10 clan.. I only know a few and this is a very small few that have done it. If you have good port work which alot of sy ty guys do.. you might be able to take advantage of this. But I still can't calc out volumetric efficency for a 90 mm throttle body on an engine barely close to 300 ci.

Thats my .02
Click to expand...
well Nick made 452hp and 602ftlbs (if i remember correctly) w/ that pictured setup above.
 
Tommyquest

Tommyquest

The Member's Member
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

The pic I put up is Nick's setup and does not use a 90mm TB. The other guy Alex who started the thread said he is using the 90mm.
 
qbnkiller

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

...while I can see what Rev is saying, the stock TB is dual 48mm....Mike Lee is selling (SOLD OUT) the BBK dual 58mm units....so I cannot see the major detriment to using a single 90mm...

Time will tell...
 
R

Revolution

New member
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

Im not saying the combo does not work. Let me clarifiy this.

If you calc for displacement and the volume of each runner passage.. 90 MM is too large for a 4.3 unless it is making serious power. IE over 650 flywheel. You have to understand what I am saying from an air flow to volume comparrison. This is what I am getting at. You don't take a Dominator Carb and throw it on a V6 and just jet it down to work. Fuel is no issue with this intake. The fuel system works fine. I am telling you that the airflow is where I see problems if the combo is going to be sold as advertised. What will happen with that large throttle body is the air is going to tumble and hit hard and crash on the inside of the plentum. Why? the velocity is lower. When you open up the size of the inlet the velocity pressure reduces.. it's fairly simple air flow calcs. I do this for a living. I am a certified Air and hydronic engineer and I hold an associates in mechanical engineering. The reason I am bringing this to light now is so that before this thing goes on anyone's truck they realize what is going on. the starting point for that intake should be.. like the one I am deveolping a smaller throttle body with a greater taper to the venturi so the air does not crash coming out of the elbow. I am also not using a wilson elbow. I am CAD designing a nicely transitioned tapered adapter to allow the air to smoothly roll into the intake while keeping velocity at it's peak. The reason behind this... If your air crashes you get pockets in the air stream not allowing the valvetrain to be as efficent as the headwork that they are based on. This falls in suit with you cam shaft profile and with what kind of air charge you are supplying the intake with.

Bottom line so it is crystal clear I am not starting an argument. Only saying..
Bigger is not always better.

This is exsactly why 4 years ago wheel to wheel did not just make up an intake like this.. They welded up a plentum on a stock 4.3 intake and drilled it out made some rails and tested the theroy..

The wilson idea has been out there for a while anyone who sits around the pro 5.0 boards knows this.. or anyone who goes to turbo mustang.com
 
qbnkiller

qbnkiller

Conflaguration Specialist
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

I guess what I need to do is strap one to a truck and strap that to a dyno and test with each. No better way in my opinion.

I see this mod for people that are going to be pushing some boost throug their motors....5-600hp people. i think it should be a good gain for them, but like I said above, the dyno will tell all!
 
It's just a six

It's just a six

Super Member
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

I would think that the plenum volume(cc's) is too small by looking at the pics?
Did you compare the difference between the stock set up & your set up?
Looks good though. What size TB is that? :tup:
:2cents:
 
90stangGT

90stangGT

Cobra member
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

qbnkiller said:
I guess what I need to do is strap one to a truck and strap that to a dyno and test with each. No better way in my opinion.

I see this mod for people that are going to be pushing some boost throug their motors....5-600hp people. i think it should be a good gain for them, but like I said above, the dyno will tell all!
Click to expand...
I think most of us who are considering this route are looking for 500+ hp, I know I am. Please let all of us who are waiting know the results as soon as possible.
 
M

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

rev,
you act like it's 1/4" piping going to the TB where it magically expands to 3.5". I would totally agree with you in that situation. But if you have a turbo/intercooler setup that can fill that much space efficiently....i don't agree w/ your statement. I'm sure you had 1 or 2 classes of air/fluid dynamics during your 2 years of schooling...so i'm not fully doubting what you say. I just ask for less generalization and a little more detail to back up your statement. What you say about air tumbling and crashing inside the plenum i would agree with on an NA motor...but with boost pressure? I have a hard time following your agrument there.

Now, i would agree there would be a pressure loss/turbo efficiency issue if you just swapped to this setup from the standard stock TB/intake, but would think it'd be VERY minimal, and not at all detrimental. But this is all theoretical/opinion...and the only way to prove anything for sure is on a dyno really.
 
Windedv6

Windedv6

Ty n 10s
Re: Intake Option For Vortec Heads

This is what I am using. Anyone see a problem with this setup.

DSC00027.JPG


DSC00018.JPG


DSC00017.JPG


DSC00012.JPG


This is a converted Carb intake. Although I am running a 75mm TB instead of a 90mm, it is beening pushed with #30lbs of boost and 84# injectors. The thruck idles fines, drivability is fine and WOT is great. There were ppl that said this is to much intake and TB to able to drive without high boost...but it idles and drives like a stocker. Bottom end is a stock stroke and 8.5:1 compression. Cam is similar to a 422 comp cam. Heads are vortecs. I ran a 412 comp cam in it last year. This setup is a fairly tame setup, as far as a NA motor would be concerned and the big TB and intake are not causing any issues whether under boost or not. I am not a professor in this subject...just a real world guy that been racing since the early 70's.

John
 
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