Interest Thread: Wavetrac Torque Biasing Front Differential

[420]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Now a limited slip wouldn't solve all of those problems but it certainly would help. The problem happening in the video above is both front wheels are spinning but one side of the truck is lifting more then the other. This causes the wheel with slightly more weight to pitch the truck sideways. Now that because the locker is the unit being used and the wheels are Locked and can't spin freely of one another they have a 1:1 bias ratio. The wavetrac however can alternate this bias ratio to accommodate. As I mentioned before a limited slip would definitely not solve the main problem here and that's simply more power then all 4 wheels can put down at one time. It would however help with the squirming off the line.

It's this squirming that I am most concerned about, because it can be violent enough to put a truck into a wall, or the other lane. There are other tools to address overpowering all 4 wheels. I still think putting together a group buy is a little premature, especially at $1200 a pop. I would want to see the difference that the Wavetrac makes in a big HP truck before I shell out that kind of cash. The technical explaination sounds like it will be safer than trying to run a locker up front for sure, but I guess I want to see how much ET a $1200 piece is worth over the stock open diff before I jump in line (especially in this weak economy. I be po' yo!)

 

[Andrew S]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

That's a very good point. I can see there just isn't enough interest to warrant pursuing this any further as a group buy. Plan B it is.

Thanks for your time and input guys.

 

[420]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Andrew, have you considered contacing our site sponsors and see if any of them would be willing to fund the initial run, and be the "authorized retailer" of these units? Just a thought...

The price tag doesn't scare me, as long as I can see proof of concept in a high power SyTy first.

 

[Blazerspeed]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

That's a very good point. I can see there just isn't enough interest to warrant pursuing this any further as a group buy. Plan B it is.

Thanks for your time and input guys.

I think the interest is there, otherwise this thread wouldn't have the views it does. Sounds to me like more people want valid proof of use before they cash in their chips.

 

[Andrew S]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

I appreciate the input guys. I'm sending Wavetrac my differential and they are going to look it over and see if anything they currently make is similar in size (fingers crossed) and also do some R&D and get me some real numbers on cost, numbers needed for the initial run etc.

My hope is that I can retro-fit one into my differential show what it's capable of and then try again. I think I made the mistake of not stressing the fact this is just an interest thread. I wasn't asking for anyone to put money down on the spot or commit to anything. Just gauging what interest there really is for a unit like this. So far 6 guys have genuine interest in it which is a great start.

 

[ziembic]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

If this is not a "committed to spending cash" threat, then I am interested. I am in the beginning of a long process to build a relatively quick truck. So with that said, I may be interested in this depending on the results of your preliminary testing. I would also like to compliment you on your initiative on undertaking this probably long, arduous and probably costly process.

 

[eviltwin]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

I'm having a hard time understanding why you would need any type of locker, LSD, ect... In the front differential. Like Dave said, the front is not going to spin without the back spinning. If you have that problem then you need to work on your suspension/tire setup. You got to think, hacking is running 7.4 or whatever in 2wd without spinning on "stock" suspension. Seems like a waste to me unless your building some rock crawler out of your Syty.

 

[Andrew S]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

^ without a doubt a limited slip front differential has limited uses when it comes to these trucks.

Comparing hackings truck to an awd truck is a bit like apples and oranges imo. If you are looking for the absolute fastest et's out of an s-series truck hop into a 2wd truck and shed that 150lbs of useless weight up front. No argument here, a properly set-up 2wd truck will beat an awd truck at those speeds he is running. Hackings truck is incredible there is no doubt about it, but it's not anything like what I'm after, or by the sounds of it a few others.

Other then the cost, to me there is no disadvantage to having a limited slip up front. I enjoy a little tail out fun every now and then. Getting squirrely on the track or pushing the limits to far happens especially for amateurs. The front diff having the ability to pulse power to the wheels with more traction is just an advantage I want to have.

 

[Kenny99]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

I'm having a hard time understanding why you would need any type of locker, LSD, ect... In the front differential. Like Dave said, the front is not going to spin without the back spinning. If you have that problem then you need to work on your suspension/tire setup. You got to think, hacking is running 7.4 or whatever in 2wd without spinning on "stock" suspension. Seems like a waste to me unless your building some rock crawler out of your Syty.

In theory this is true and straightforward. In practice there are a few issues for road race guys and spirited street driving. A lot of guys use LSD instead of a locker and that leaves you with 1 100% wheel while the other "assists" with whatever bias the clutches apply. With a locker the rear will be "loose" in a turn a somewhat traction limited. The problems crop up when you cross a road crown or similar situation that unloads opposing corners, a dip that may pitch the rear on exit, and road debris or conditions that cause a loose/slick surface. The open diff not being a biasing posi design will try to apply power to the either fastest moving wheel or the wheel with no traction. Both instances are bad because the fastest moving wheel in a turn is the outside creating more push than is desirable, and if the inside wheel loses traction, it will not only not assist the rear traction, the lurching back and forth when it starts to bite is problematic.

The use of this biasing style differential is completely different, and sometimes the total opposite of nasty locker behavior even though they are both designed to improve traction.

Andrew B has been helping me design a road race AWD setup that is a far better setup for corner burning than the Sy/Ty TC. The viscous coupling can be made to work okay, but is far from ideal. In my situation we are putting together a TC that allows about 15% wheelslip before front assist is applied. As mentioned in earlier posts, will allow me to tighten the line with throttle without the fear of spinning out. That is where this diff is really gonna shine. There are many situations in normal driving that will be improved in practice. If you guys look up the guys that are dominating AWD tarmac rallies, these are the type diffs they use.They are good for pavement. The Sy/Ty has a lot of the ill behaviors of a FWD when accelerating with the wheel turned etc, anyone that has driven a FWD with a biasing front diff knows what kind of improvement it is even in normal driving. This is not a reply to get into a pissin' match...... It is just to kinda let you guys know that Andrew B has really done his homework on this. Good job

 

[Andrew S]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Thanks Kenny.
Quadra-jet touched on a lot of good points though and opened my eyes to why there was a lot less interest then I expected.

The market for an item like this is geared towards a very specific build. More importantly a very specific driver. For those looking to maintain a stock style truck or stock power levels there is no need for this. For those looking for the absolute fastest 1/4 mile times forget about this. Do as eviltwin suggested tune your suspension and imo drop the awd all together.

Now for those looking for a vehicle that can run a road course, put up a respectable 1/4 mile time, dd and put down some serious power well you may want to keep this option in mind. I'm not saying by any means you need this, but if you are like me and building your truck to be universal and not geared towards one specific division of racing this could be a great option to have.

As we make progress on this I'll be sure to keep this thread updated for the parties interested.

 

[Kenny99]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

I do understand why you wouldn't want to be seen as pushy..... at the same time I wanted to get the point across to the guys that are on the fence that a biasing differential behaves nothing at all like like a limited slip or a locker except for added forward traction.

There are none of the ill behaviors like those found in a LSD or an open diff. When someone compares them to a LSD I know they haven't track tested or street driven one. This really is an important difference to note when a guy is gonna keep the stock style viscous coupling that is already bad for road course work, hydroplaning situations, and ice or hardpack snow because of the excessive front bias.

The highly modified transfer cases that you and I are dealing with won't be quite as sensitive, even though there will still be plenty of advantages over open and LSD. This goes for the rear as well especially when RWD with front "assist" is being implemented in our situation

 

[Syboy]

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

Re: Interest Thread: Wavetrac Limited Slip Front Differential

I ran a locker in the front for years but one night hit a dip in the road while on power and the truck change lanes. You had better hold on to steering wheel or scare the crap out of yourself because it happen so fast unexpectedly.

Front locker makes the click, click on dry pravement at parking lot speeds in the summer and makes other people think you have a bad CV joint. It does work well in the snow where you can light up all four tires and really get stuck, then you have to put the truck into reverse to get out of the situation you created.

If the wave LSD gets build let me know.

I know of 2 maybe 3 people running lockers in the front without complications. That being said, they are not autocross trucks. Not saying they couldn't be but i have never driven these trucks.