Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

[rodent]

I really want to make over 500whp, maybe 600whp with my Ty. I keep looking at what it cost to build the 4.3 and then I look at a virgin 400sbc I have sitting in the corner of my garage that I'm not using for anything right now. We all know SBC parts are cheap.

SBC kits for the S-10's are also cheap. $300 covers the special oil pan and motor mounts. No cutting required. Get a larger radiator a proper fuel injection system and your done. Keep the old Typhoon engine in storage and get a 4L80e (tranny needed whether its V6 or V8).

Here's a dyno CHP did on 400sbc with some AFR heads, NA (no forced induction):
525 lb-ft and 490 hp From an 87-Octane 406ci (flywheel)

articles:
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0401_imp/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0306_406/

Now imagine that same engine with a tad lower CR with a pair of these $350 SSA manifolds and correctly sized turbos and WG's:

I would think 700whp wouldn't a problem with that setup. Basically a Chris Chow Sy/Ty! I don't know... Just seams an easier way to make more power. I realize you're taking away the Sy/Ty's original V6 platform but I don't see an issue as long as you keep the parts and still can convert it back if you ever want to sell it. Thoughts? Comments?

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

do what ever you want to your ty. if i could trade my ty for the TTSY, i would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[rodent]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Because of lack of room for IC and piping, I'm also thinking Whipple supercharger (twin screw). Very efficient and runs cooler. 20psi is possible. Clean engine bay and about the same price as two turbos/piping/WG's. The Kenne Bell Cobra blowers use the same technology and its pretty impressive what a 03 Cobra can trap.

 

[mattw]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Go for it.. I sold my Ty and decided to build a clone as I couldn't justify spending any money on a 4.3...


-Matt

 

[Jimmy]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Sounds like a good idea. Be sure to upgrade the brakes.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

I'm planning on a single turbo LSx setup in mine. Cost wise.....you can't beat it compared to the 4.3. I personally wouldn't go with an old SBC. I know you have one in the corner, but you have to admit....technology is coming a LONG ways since the original SBC. Now there WERE some cars that came out with 400hp+ from the factory. Could they pass emissions today?? Probably not. Look at the new C6 Z06.....or the new Mustang Cobra....you're talking over 500hp from the factory...in 2007. The aftermarket is huge, although not AS huge as the older SBC....the new 3rd and 4th gen GM motors are pretty damned impressive. Head over to www.performancetrucks.net and see what kind of numbers people are putting down with just a 4.8L or 5.3L with a T67 or T76 with 10psi.... It's very close to what you're talking about as your goals.....

 

['JustDreamin']

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Here's my thoughts:

The LSx motor is plenty stout both NA and blown (I've heard the stock crank is good to about 1000hp on boost and with 6 bolt mains the bottom end is about as stable as you'll ever get), but has some drawbacks. It is fairly challenging to install in a S10 platform (parts availability / access drive / etc) and engine parts are still fairly pricey. For example, camshafts are still in the $350 to $400 range for off the shelf offerings, which is a fair chunk of change more than SBC's. The cylinder head and EFI design is really quite good, though (check out the L92 cylinder heads, they flow 330cfm@.650" lift AS CAST and are darn cheap, there is an article in this months Chevy Hi Po). So there are certainly benefits to running that motor.

But, since you've already got a 400 SBC, its worth thinking hard about it too....My concern would be what parts and pieces you'd have to upgrade in a SBC in order to meet your goals reliably and what that would cost relative to your other options. Also, you'd have to figure out what EFI setup will do what you desire and how it would affect your budget. I'd expect that the 400 would be your most cost effective build (compared to either a V6 or the LSx) giving you the most power for the money you spend.

I'm not real sure what the 400 SBC block can handle power wise. I would expect 700hp is within its capabilities, but probably ought to research that.....

Another potentially important question is: Does the truck need to pass an emissions test? If so, what kind? Tailpipe or IM240 Dynamometer? How about Visual Inspection? That requirement (or lack thereof) will also influence your decision.

'JustDreamin'

 

[rodent]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Been there done that with the LS1 in my 02 Trans Am. Heads arent worth a sh*t when it comes to higher boost levels. The decks are too thin and the head bolts are small and there's fewer bolts holding the head on the engine compared to the SBC. I'm pretty sure the LS2 is the same. You have to upgrade to AFR heads which have a thicker deck. The biggest problem I see with LSX is what they cost. Everything costs twice as much including the heads. I had actually built a LQ8 (6.0) and was going use the AFR's but had to sell it due to finances. Don't get me wrong, the LSX is a great engine and flows like no other but I think the SBC is a better bang for the buck.

I don't think there's a custom LS1 oil pan for the S10 either. It can be done just going to cost more $$$.

As for injection, I'm thinking FAST with the built in wideband tuning. Emmisions is on the dyno but as long as it has cats and can pass the sniffer, they're happy. They don't need to see ODB1.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Syntist]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

a 400 block is about maxed out at 650hp or so you can push it past but its a ticking time bomb. you would be better off going with a dart littke m block. for the money it would take to get the 400 block to handle the 650 or so hp your looking at about $1000, ie sonic testing the wall thickness and magnafluxing it for crack, boreing it with torque plates, line honing it, adding splayed caps. a dart is about 2grand but it will last way longer than the stock block. its money well spent if you only want to do it once and have it last, it will hold 2000hp

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

My random rambling.

500rwhp is doable with a stock 4.3 block, 600rwhp is probably possible, but its going ot be highly stressed and you might/want a Billet. I am sure you already know this but once your into Bowtie Blocks & Billet cranks, its $$$.

I don't know much about 400 blocks, so I don't know the block limitations, I am guess it can do more than a production 4.3. 600rwhp hp should be pretty easy with the right sized turbo(s).

I know people say SBC are cheap but they are only cheap when your using production parts. The do have a good aftermarket selection and choices though. If you have a 400 already built up that is obviously going to be cheapest solution. If your 400 is built up with production parts (ie pink rods, stock crank) I wouldn't trust it to 600-700rwhp. If you look at forged rods, pistons, cams, internals. Their isn't that much of a premium for 4.3 parts. It is nice to have aftermarket forged cranks for less than $1000 though. They have a nice selection of aluminum heads as well.

You going to need custom headers for a 400 in a S-10 SBC. Its a lot easier to run a single turbo because of the steering shaft on the driver side (you will also need a different brake booster to even think about running a down pipe) The current 4.3 headers are by no means cheap either (I imagine headers would be require to hit 600rwhp in a 4.3). So its no savings either.

Aftermarket Fuel Injection/Wiring/Throttle Cable isn't going to be a big saving on the value of SyTy Intake/Harness. At best it it probably similar

At least IMO to do a SBC right vs 4.3 short block, it costs about same amount of money for the similar level of parts quality, but he SBC will make more more hp or if you choose to, it could do it more effortlessly and reliably. For me I have chosen to stay with a 4.3 for a number of reasons, but the biggest reason is that it will make more than enough hp that I need for street.

 

['JustDreamin']

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

I don't think there's a custom LS1 oil pan for the S10 either. It can be done just going to cost more $$$.

TurboTime has a custom aluminum oilpan setup for $552. Comes with the pickup (which for the $$$ it ought to).

I built my own for my LQ4 powered '99 Bravada. Cost me about $50 in materials and a fair bit of my time. But it was a fairly easy build with the flat flanges and all.

The 4 bolt head setup does limit the clamping load on the LSx platform. A couple of the aftermarket blocks are stepping up to a 6 bolt head pattern. But like I said before, the L92 heads flow really well. Heck, last dyno test I saw (in a magazine) was a LS2 shortblock (stock) with L92 heads, the matching L76 intake, and a cam (232 / 236 .600" lift, so not exactly a "stock" cam) making 545hp @ 6,500 NA. If you're making 545 with no boost, 700hp shouldn't require that much. I'm not sure how streetable / turbo compatible that cam is, and its got way too much compression (not sure of the exact ratio, but I'm sure its over 10.5:1) to go anywhere near a turbo setup, but its certainly a basepoint.

But if you've already got a 400SBC, I'd be thinking hard about it....

'JustDreamin'

 

[JSM]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Not that I would have researched this or anything but....

A v8 only requires 2 inj. plugs to be added to harness. Everything else plugs right in to the stock ECM. Of course you need a v8 memcal from a camaro and distributor.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Not that I would have researched this or anything but....

A v8 only requires 2 inj. plugs to be added to harness. Everything else plugs right in to the stock ECM. Of course you need a v8 memcal from a camaro and distributor.

...and the Code 59 is supose to fix all the V8 bugs in the original $58.

 

[DanenGraham]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Im trying to save up for my v8 build up. I want to do it as cheap as possible while making a shitload more power than a 4.3

Unless you have major tools, and money the LSx swap will be much more difficult than a SBC. All the SBC shit is done for you basicly.

A 400 sbc, 355, 383, 377 would all do fine for v8 truck. take your pick. And why is everyone TT all the time? I want a single, a fat ass single that could eat your children. I want a fully forged SBC single turbo, air/air,

I have been thinking about ripping my truck down and putting all the v6shit up for sale. Its just a thought though. So who needs a upper/lower Sy intake? $1000 and its yours..... haha

 

[gkrcr882]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

I've been thinking of turbocharging the V8, only problem is finding turbo exhaust manifolds/headers:rant: . Not to mention the plumbing for an IC would be very tight, and very custom.

 

[mattw]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Not that I would have researched this or anything but....

A v8 only requires 2 inj. plugs to be added to harness. Everything else plugs right in to the stock ECM. Of course you need a v8 memcal from a camaro and distributor.

I wouldn't have researched this either. And there is no way that I've got a 749 ECM with a V8 memcal and an entire Sy/Ty wiring harness ready to go...

Unless you have major tools, and money the LSx swap will be much more difficult than a SBC. All the SBC shit is done for you basicly.

A 400 sbc, 355, 383, 377 would all do fine for v8 truck. take your pick. And why is everyone TT all the time? I want a single, a fat ass single that could eat your children. I want a fully forged SBC single turbo, air/air,

Exactly




-Matt

 

[rodent]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

a 400 block is about maxed out at 650hp or so you can push it past but its a ticking time bomb. you would be better off going with a dart littke m block. for the money it would take to get the 400 block to handle the 650 or so hp your looking at about $1000, ie sonic testing the wall thickness and magnafluxing it for crack, boreing it with torque plates, line honing it, adding splayed caps. a dart is about 2grand but it will last way longer than the stock block. its money well spent if you only want to do it once and have it last, it will hold 2000hp

I think if it were splayed with 4 bolts, it should hold more. Here's a GM 350 block designed for 725hp:
http://speedomotive.com/ps-172-69-chevy-383cid-725hp-supercharged-mouse-stroker-engine.aspx
I don't think they would build this sbc if it couldn't take the power.

Price is not too bad for a Dart short block. 422ci complete for $5200:
http://speedomotive.com/ps-170-68-chevy-422cid-650-hp-pro-sportsman-stroker-engine.aspx
Add AFR heads for another $1300.
Still less than a fully race built 4.3 and the sky is the limit with the Dart block.

Here's another sbc build with AFR heads and a smaller supercharger that made 650 hp and 612lbft with 10psi.
http://www.superchevy.com/technical...adders/0603sc_small_block_chevy_blower_motor/
Granted it was on race gas but with some meth, that might be doable with pump. I have that same blower sitting in my garage that I was going to toss on my K5. It might sit a little to high in the Typhoon even with a 3" cowl.

I'm not set on twin turbo. The twin manifolds are super cheap thats all. I wish I could find someone making a single SBC kit. If I go supercharger, exhaust headers that fit the sbc to the S10 are around $400 coated.

It would be nice to use the current ECM and harness and just add 2 injectors. I wasn't sure if that was possible.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

I think if it were splayed with 4 bolts, it should hold more. Here's a GM 350 block designed for 725hp:
http://speedomotive.com/ps-172-69-chevy-383cid-725hp-supercharged-mouse-stroker-engine.aspx
I don't think they would build this sbc if it couldn't take the power.

Speed-o-motive :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Ummm, lets pet this way they cater to budget crowd. I wouldn't be caught dead using their stuff, especially on a 600+ rwhp forced induction. A lot of AAMCO's will tell you they can build you a transmission too....

 

[420]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Now imagine that same engine with a tad lower CR with a pair of these $350 SSA manifolds and correctly sized turbos and WG's:

So simple, yet so beautiful...

 

[rodent]

Re: Is it wrong to think about V8/TT swap?

Speed-o-motive :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Ummm, lets pet this way they cater to budget crowd. I wouldn't be caught dead using their stuff, especially on a 600+ rwhp forced induction. A lot of AAMCO's will tell you they can build you a transmission too....

Are they that bad? I see they build a 4.3 too.