turbotyphoon69
New member
Has any one looked into running E85 (110 octane) in their trucks? I am looking at other options instead of methanol.
Methanol vs. E85
- Thread starter turbotyphoon69
- Start date
UR50SLO
V6+2=LSXCamaro
Re: Methanol vs. E85
There was a nice article in Hot Rod or Car Craft a few months ago about E-85. You'll need alot larger of a injector to supply enough fuel to run E-85 correctly. It is high octane but lacks the BTU's that gas has. If you were shooting for 13.5 AFR (nat. asprated) you'd need to run in the 7 AFR's with E-85 to have the same BTU's in the combustion chamber. (I'm going off memory with the E-85 number but it's close)
So.. what I'm getting at is you'll need a BIG injector to push the fuel and a wideband to tune it all with. If you just throw in E-85 in the tank and no additional fuel your asking for trouble or a slower truck.
Hope that shed's some light on the subject.
I don't know anything about Meth Injection and don't plan on using it anytime soon. I agree there.
There was a nice article in Hot Rod or Car Craft a few months ago about E-85. You'll need alot larger of a injector to supply enough fuel to run E-85 correctly. It is high octane but lacks the BTU's that gas has. If you were shooting for 13.5 AFR (nat. asprated) you'd need to run in the 7 AFR's with E-85 to have the same BTU's in the combustion chamber. (I'm going off memory with the E-85 number but it's close)
So.. what I'm getting at is you'll need a BIG injector to push the fuel and a wideband to tune it all with. If you just throw in E-85 in the tank and no additional fuel your asking for trouble or a slower truck.
Hope that shed's some light on the subject.
I don't know anything about Meth Injection and don't plan on using it anytime soon. I agree there.
turbotyphoon69
New member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Yeah i was comparing it to methanol injecton wiht pump gas. When you say BIG injectors, what kinda numbers are you talking? I was planning on gettin a wide band but I am just researching now to see what syty gurus are thinking. I dont even drive my truck so I dong care until the suspension is rebuild and the rocks are off the road.
Yeah i was comparing it to methanol injecton wiht pump gas. When you say BIG injectors, what kinda numbers are you talking? I was planning on gettin a wide band but I am just researching now to see what syty gurus are thinking. I dont even drive my truck so I dong care until the suspension is rebuild and the rocks are off the road.
jwaller
Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
Re: Methanol vs. E85
e at turbotime has done some work with the stuff and syty's but also remember that E85 will do a job cleaning your fuel system out so be careful to monitor fuel filter status and I'm not sure the fuel pump is setup with the right seals to handle it in the long term.
Your milage will suffer considerabbly.
e at turbotime has done some work with the stuff and syty's but also remember that E85 will do a job cleaning your fuel system out so be careful to monitor fuel filter status and I'm not sure the fuel pump is setup with the right seals to handle it in the long term.
Your milage will suffer considerabbly.
TYTILIDIE
METH HEAD
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Im not going to sit here and pretend to be an expert on this. But I have read up quite a bit on this on local forums and Ill be honest, i dont see the point. If you ahve to burn almost twice as much of it, whats the point? I dont think the power gains from it really justify the amount of work you have to do just to run it through your lines. Sounds pretty worthless to me.
Im not going to sit here and pretend to be an expert on this. But I have read up quite a bit on this on local forums and Ill be honest, i dont see the point. If you ahve to burn almost twice as much of it, whats the point? I dont think the power gains from it really justify the amount of work you have to do just to run it through your lines. Sounds pretty worthless to me.
turbotyphoon69
New member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
funny cause YOUR the one trying to push me away from alky but i cant race fuel year round around here nor do I wish to crank up the boost then turn it back down for the street.
funny cause YOUR the one trying to push me away from alky but i cant race fuel year round around here nor do I wish to crank up the boost then turn it back down for the street.
turbotyphoon69
New member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Might have been louie but one of you two was trying to get me to avoid it.
Might have been louie but one of you two was trying to get me to avoid it.
dhorsman2000
Member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
I ran a mix of 75% 91 octane/ 25% E85 last summer and never had a problem....Did have some knock with just straight 91, ran the E85 mix and low and behold it went away.
I went to a 50/50 mix at one point but the milage went way down and I was going too lean according to the scanner, so I went back to the 75/25 and all was good again.
E85 is something like 114ish octane and is a HELL of a lot cheaper than race gas!!!
I ran a mix of 75% 91 octane/ 25% E85 last summer and never had a problem....Did have some knock with just straight 91, ran the E85 mix and low and behold it went away.
I went to a 50/50 mix at one point but the milage went way down and I was going too lean according to the scanner, so I went back to the 75/25 and all was good again.
E85 is something like 114ish octane and is a HELL of a lot cheaper than race gas!!!
UR50SLO
V6+2=LSXCamaro
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Dhorse.... Do you have a wideband? or are you basing your info off the narrowband on the Data Master?
I found on my Nissan (turbo) Maxima that even running 10-15% ethanol would need about one point richer on my wide band to make same power as gas. I shoot for 10.8-9 WOT with 95pump gas with 10-15% Ethanol from the pump.. It does not state that there is Ethanol in the gas but if they are selling it for the same price as 92oct it's got to have it in there to have 95oct rating. That's what is avalible here.
If it was standard gas I'd be shooting for 11.7 WOT. I can tell it needs more fuel with the 95.
I'd have to double it if running E85.
I only run pump gas anyway.. race stuff is outa my price range.
Scott~
Dhorse.... Do you have a wideband? or are you basing your info off the narrowband on the Data Master?
I found on my Nissan (turbo) Maxima that even running 10-15% ethanol would need about one point richer on my wide band to make same power as gas. I shoot for 10.8-9 WOT with 95pump gas with 10-15% Ethanol from the pump.. It does not state that there is Ethanol in the gas but if they are selling it for the same price as 92oct it's got to have it in there to have 95oct rating. That's what is avalible here.
If it was standard gas I'd be shooting for 11.7 WOT. I can tell it needs more fuel with the 95.
I'd have to double it if running E85.
I only run pump gas anyway.. race stuff is outa my price range.
Scott~
canadian
sy in progress
Re: Methanol vs. E85
The major complaint everybody has about E85 is the fact that it will give you less mileage per tank than straight gas. Some of them can't understand that people may want to use it due to the higher octane level. If filling up more than usual isn't an issue for you, it can be done, but you should probably plan out your fuel system accordingly.
E85 has a tendancy to absorb water, so anything that will be subjected to the fuel should be capable of handling any water in the system. This means stainless injector internals (I believe both Delphi and MSD injectors are stainless), a capable pump, filter, regulator, and all associated lines.
erue had mentioned that he was going to use E85, but I don't know if that's still the case or not. If E85 was readily available everywhere I'm sure you'd find more people trying to switch over to it just for the octane, but seeing as how availablity is spotty right now most people don't even bother.
There should be a thread on here about E85 I started a while ago with some information in it. Do a search for it and see if there's any more useful information in it. Found this through Google too:
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm
The major complaint everybody has about E85 is the fact that it will give you less mileage per tank than straight gas. Some of them can't understand that people may want to use it due to the higher octane level. If filling up more than usual isn't an issue for you, it can be done, but you should probably plan out your fuel system accordingly.
E85 has a tendancy to absorb water, so anything that will be subjected to the fuel should be capable of handling any water in the system. This means stainless injector internals (I believe both Delphi and MSD injectors are stainless), a capable pump, filter, regulator, and all associated lines.
erue had mentioned that he was going to use E85, but I don't know if that's still the case or not. If E85 was readily available everywhere I'm sure you'd find more people trying to switch over to it just for the octane, but seeing as how availablity is spotty right now most people don't even bother.
There should be a thread on here about E85 I started a while ago with some information in it. Do a search for it and see if there's any more useful information in it. Found this through Google too:
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm
myclone
Donating Member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Ive touched base with a few ppl using but since its not available here (yet :roll: ) I havent been able to mess with the stuff personally. Im patiently waiting for it to become available so I can start running it (almost $400 for 15 gallons of 116 race gas gets old REALLY quick).
From what other ppl have said as well as what canadian mentioned previously the fuel system has to be up to the task. So far Ive heard:
Stock paper type fuel filter turns to mush if ran with straight 85 or high concentrations of it.
E85 cleans all the accumulated crud out of a fuel system so be prepared to do some cleaning/parts replacing the first time you use it straight or in high concentration.
Octane can vary from 105-110 depending on how the stuff was made.
Some ppl swear that E85 attacks rubber parts in the fuel system while other ppl have said they havent had any problems...I dunno who to believe at this point.
Some ppl have said that E85 also attacks aluminum but that its not a volitile type deal just that if you leave the stuff sitting in say aluminum fuel rails for weeks on end it will start to corrode the inside (that could be a problem for ppl like myself whos trucks sit for weeks on end and only started to move it around).
Thats all Ive heard so far....Im patiently waiting for the stuff to become available around here so I can see whats up with it. I could care less about having to fill up more often but Id really like to enjoy the high octane without the huge bashing the wallet takes with race gas.
:2cents: FWIW
Ive touched base with a few ppl using but since its not available here (yet :roll: ) I havent been able to mess with the stuff personally. Im patiently waiting for it to become available so I can start running it (almost $400 for 15 gallons of 116 race gas gets old REALLY quick).
From what other ppl have said as well as what canadian mentioned previously the fuel system has to be up to the task. So far Ive heard:
Stock paper type fuel filter turns to mush if ran with straight 85 or high concentrations of it.
E85 cleans all the accumulated crud out of a fuel system so be prepared to do some cleaning/parts replacing the first time you use it straight or in high concentration.
Octane can vary from 105-110 depending on how the stuff was made.
Some ppl swear that E85 attacks rubber parts in the fuel system while other ppl have said they havent had any problems...I dunno who to believe at this point.
Some ppl have said that E85 also attacks aluminum but that its not a volitile type deal just that if you leave the stuff sitting in say aluminum fuel rails for weeks on end it will start to corrode the inside (that could be a problem for ppl like myself whos trucks sit for weeks on end and only started to move it around).
Thats all Ive heard so far....Im patiently waiting for the stuff to become available around here so I can see whats up with it. I could care less about having to fill up more often but Id really like to enjoy the high octane without the huge bashing the wallet takes with race gas.
:2cents: FWIW
nallj92
Active member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
i ran it mixed with decent sucess, did about same milage as gas but was a bit lean on crusing. power was there it just wanted more fuel tho, didnt get into it too much cause the season was over for me but will be back to trying it more this summer. i was also spraying meth too.
i ran it mixed with decent sucess, did about same milage as gas but was a bit lean on crusing. power was there it just wanted more fuel tho, didnt get into it too much cause the season was over for me but will be back to trying it more this summer. i was also spraying meth too.
dhorsman2000
Member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
That was going off of the old snap on brick, so no it wasn't nearly as acurate as a wideband, so your probably right, I just couldn't see the difference.
also you can adjust, to a certain point with your adjustable FPR by bumping up FP.....
That was going off of the old snap on brick, so no it wasn't nearly as acurate as a wideband, so your probably right, I just couldn't see the difference.
also you can adjust, to a certain point with your adjustable FPR by bumping up FP.....
HotRudyRod
New member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
This might sound dumb but hopefully not, has anyone tried adding the E85 to their existing alki system? You could just run small boost/timing settings and add them up as needed and shown safe by the data loggin program?
Just something i though could be better, easier and less risky since the alki systems are designed to safely operate with corrosive fuels and you wouldnt have to worry about upgrading the whole fuel system.
P.S: Im no expert, in fact its the 1st time i read about the E85 and didnt consider the short comins.
This might sound dumb but hopefully not, has anyone tried adding the E85 to their existing alki system? You could just run small boost/timing settings and add them up as needed and shown safe by the data loggin program?
Just something i though could be better, easier and less risky since the alki systems are designed to safely operate with corrosive fuels and you wouldnt have to worry about upgrading the whole fuel system.
P.S: Im no expert, in fact its the 1st time i read about the E85 and didnt consider the short comins.
UR50SLO
V6+2=LSXCamaro
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Here are some comparisions of stoichmetric fuel mixtures for different fuel blends:
======== stoichmetric AFR ===== max power rich AFR
Gasoline ---------- 14.7:1 -------------------12.5
100% E-85 ------- 9.73-9.8:1 ------------- ~ 9:1 - 8:1
100% fuel ethanol - 9:1 ------------------- ~ 7.2:1
Got these numbers off a different site.... as you can see with more ethanol you'll need to add more fuel to make the same power or "mixture" as gasoline. If you have no way of tuning the fuel map you'll need to crank up the fuel pressure. No one should be playing with this fuel unless you've got a wideband. Honestly to be tuning anything today you should have one. They are alot cheaper than a new engine.
We've got several locations here that have E-85 avalible.
After reading about the fuel I think I'll stay with regular pump gas for now.
I did not know about the moisture issue... good tip there! I heard about the crossive and or attacking of the rubber parts/O-rings.
~Scott
Here are some comparisions of stoichmetric fuel mixtures for different fuel blends:
======== stoichmetric AFR ===== max power rich AFR
Gasoline ---------- 14.7:1 -------------------12.5
100% E-85 ------- 9.73-9.8:1 ------------- ~ 9:1 - 8:1
100% fuel ethanol - 9:1 ------------------- ~ 7.2:1
Got these numbers off a different site.... as you can see with more ethanol you'll need to add more fuel to make the same power or "mixture" as gasoline. If you have no way of tuning the fuel map you'll need to crank up the fuel pressure. No one should be playing with this fuel unless you've got a wideband. Honestly to be tuning anything today you should have one. They are alot cheaper than a new engine.
We've got several locations here that have E-85 avalible.
After reading about the fuel I think I'll stay with regular pump gas for now.
I did not know about the moisture issue... good tip there! I heard about the crossive and or attacking of the rubber parts/O-rings.
~Scott
tyndago
New member
Re: Methanol vs. E85
Lots of newer cars are flex fuel. They run on E85 or regular gas.
E85 is considered a green fuel source. However you want to look at that. 85 % renewable.
Its high octane, like any alcohol based fuel requires about "double" of the injector you would require for straight gasoline.
From what I have read, ethanol shouldnt be as corrosive as methanol.
Fuel mileage won't be as good, but your only burning 15% gas, so overall you will be using Prius levels of gasoline. Kinda.
Lots of newer cars are flex fuel. They run on E85 or regular gas.
E85 is considered a green fuel source. However you want to look at that. 85 % renewable.
Its high octane, like any alcohol based fuel requires about "double" of the injector you would require for straight gasoline.
From what I have read, ethanol shouldnt be as corrosive as methanol.
Fuel mileage won't be as good, but your only burning 15% gas, so overall you will be using Prius levels of gasoline. Kinda.