New best NEW UPDATE

[Don W.]

See my last post.

Whoo Hoo, Went to the track yesterday for my usual Wed romp. Made some minor changes. Instead of 5 gals of 96 added 3 gals of 100. (All told I'm 'guessing I may have something close to 93 or 4 in the tank.) Ran the boost up from 19 to 21. Switched on the TC lockup. And shifted to OD at 1000'. Truck felt real strong and rewarded me with a 12.698 @ 104.38 pass. Followed an hour an half later (BIG oil down) by a 12.856 @ 104.31. I had to leave early so only 2 passes.

What's kinda frustrating is the 2 runs on Datamaster. First run is pretty clean, second is not so clean (spark retard wise) and I didn't change anything. I'll post 'em both and maybe someone can comment.

Scanner is non-op on my new Vista machine. I'll see if it works on the wife's XP and I'll get the slip up.

Here's the DM files

http://www.sonic.net/~donpris/AutoLog_337.uni

http://www.sonic.net/~donpris/AutoLog_338.uni

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: New best

Re: New best

I think that is a new best for you :tup: How is your boost control? I find sometimes with a stock truck, that times the knock retard depends on where the boost peak.

For instance if you boost is going from 18-21 psi, you might a certain rpm (ie 4000 rpm) where it knocks at 21psi but not 18 psi, so if you run hit 21 psi at that 4000 rpm it slow downs.

I also find sometime 3rd feel strong or weak, I think it more due to boost going down or the boost comes up, if you have a roller coaster boost curve. Your MPH look very similiar, it your 60' that different between runs?

 

[ChevelleDude71]

Re: New best

Re: New best

Whoo Hoo, Went to the track yesterday for my usual Wed romp. Made some minor changes. Instead of 5 gals of 96 added 3 gals of 100. (All told I'm 'guessing I may have something close to 93 or 4 in the tank.) Ran the boost up from 19 to 21. Switched on the TC lockup. And shifted to OD at 1000'. Truck felt real strong and rewarded me with a 12.698 @ 104.38 pass. Followed an hour an half later (BIG oil down) by a 12.856 @ 104.31. I had to leave early so only 2 passes.

What's kinda frustrating is the 2 runs on Datamaster. First run is pretty clean, second is not so clean (spark retard wise) and I didn't change anything. I'll post 'em both and maybe someone can comment.

Scanner is non-op on my new Vista machine. I'll see if it works on the wife's XP and I'll get the slip up.

That's awsome Don. great times. that's what I thought you shoud be hitting, with the stuff done to your truck. I'll be there on the 26th with my new (to me) 1997 LT1 Camaro. see you there?

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best

Re: New best

That's awsome Don. great times. that's what I thought you shoud be hitting, with the stuff done to your truck. I'll be there on the 26th with my new (to me) 1997 LT1 Camaro. see you there?

Thanks, and yes, should be there the 26th...

 

[denny]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

I think you shifted into OD a bit too soon, instead of 3900 and 4300 PRM try 4800.

Denny

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best

Re: New best

I think that is a new best for you :tup: How is your boost control? I find sometimes with a stock truck, that times the knock retard depends on where the boost peak.

For instance if you boost is going from 18-21 psi, you might a certain rpm (ie 4000 rpm) where it knocks at 21psi but not 18 psi, so if you run hit 21 psi at that 4000 rpm it slow downs.

I also find sometime 3rd feel strong or weak, I think it more due to boost going down or the boost comes up, if you have a roller coaster boost curve. Your MPH look very similiar, it your 60' that different between runs?

60' times were 1.784 & 1.846 and from there to the end differences remained about the same. 0 to 60 is the key, at least in my truck.

Boost control is manual. Although I may be approaching the the best my stock (but ported) turbo can do. Peak to valley spread with max at 19 was about 2 lbs. With max at 21 it's now about 4 lbs. Recovery is, to me, quite quick. DM are posted so you can add your comments.

Thanks.

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

I think you shifted into OD a bit too soon, instead of 3900 and 4300 PRM try 4800.

Denny

I use 1000' because there's a timer there. Easier that way. But I'll give that a try.

Thanks.

 

[Black Knight]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Congrats Don, great news!!

Where you guys goin on the 26th (infinion)? We were gonna go to Sac last night but it didn't work out. If I know you guys are gonna be there I'd try and run up there, LMK

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Congrats Don, great news!!

Where you guys goin on the 26th (infinion)? We were gonna go to Sac last night but it didn't work out. If I know you guys are gonna be there I'd try and run up there, LMK

Yup, Infineon. Summit ET series this Sat (22nd) and the Wed night bash next Wed.

AFA Sac is concerned "news at 11:00." I have family up there and keep saying we're gonna make the trip since I wouldn't have to drive back home that night just haven't done it yet. Prolly later this summer. I'd like to go there since everyone says it's a faster track.

 

[Black Knight]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Yup, Infineon. Summit ET series this Sat (22nd) and the Wed night bash next Wed.

AFA Sac is concerned "news at 11:00." I have family up there and keep saying we're gonna make the trip since I wouldn't have to drive back home that night just haven't done it yet. Prolly later this summer. I'd like to go there since everyone says it's a faster track.

Probably wont ever make a Sat, but I'll see about next Wen. :tup:

 

[turbodig]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Whoo Hoo, Went to the track yesterday for my usual Wed romp. Made some minor changes. Instead of 5 gals of 96 added 3 gals of 100. (All told I'm 'guessing I may have something close to 93 or 4 in the tank.) Ran the boost up from 19 to 21. Switched on the TC lockup. And shifted to OD at 1000'. Truck felt real strong and rewarded me with a 12.698 @ 104.38 pass. Followed an hour an half later (BIG oil down) by a 12.856 @ 104.31. I had to leave early so only 2 passes.

What's kinda frustrating is the 2 runs on Datamaster. First run is pretty clean, second is not so clean (spark retard wise) and I didn't change anything. I'll post 'em both and maybe someone can comment.

Scanner is non-op on my new Vista machine. I'll see if it works on the wife's XP and I'll get the slip up.

Here's the DM files

http://www.sonic.net/~donpris/AutoLog_337.uni

http://www.sonic.net/~donpris/AutoLog_338.uni

Couple things I see....

Shift at 48-4900. Your RPM pulldown is way low on the 2-3 and 3-4.

The chip you're running has a pretty slow knock recovery. If you watch the counts, you get a short burst, then nothing. The bursts are right on the shifts, which isn't out of the ordinary. May need a bit more fuel at <3200 & high MAP.

Your 1-2 shift looks "funny" for a manual lock-up. The bottom should be sharp like the other shifts. It looks like it slides a bit at the bottom. Wheelspin can do this, though, too.

Your boost control is ugly. I'd recommend ditching the manual controller and get the chip programmed right to control the boost. If the flapper was having trouble controlling it, it wouldn't be pulling boost down to 16 psi.

Your stock o2 looks "funny", makes me think there's a bad o2 ground.

Other than that, it looks pretty good. Flatten the boost out, get the shifts right, and get a decent hook, and you should hit a 12.4-12.5.

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Couple things I see....

Shift at 48-4900. Your RPM pulldown is way low on the 2-3 and 3-4.

The chip you're running has a pretty slow knock recovery. If you watch the counts, you get a short burst, then nothing. The bursts are right on the shifts, which isn't out of the ordinary. May need a bit more fuel at <3200 & high MAP.

Your 1-2 shift looks "funny" for a manual lock-up. The bottom should be sharp like the other shifts. It looks like it slides a bit at the bottom. Wheelspin can do this, though, too.

Your boost control is ugly. I'd recommend ditching the manual controller and get the chip programmed right to control the boost. If the flapper was having trouble controlling it, it wouldn't be pulling boost down to 16 psi.

Your stock o2 looks "funny", makes me think there's a bad o2 ground.

Other than that, it looks pretty good. Flatten the boost out, get the shifts right, and get a decent hook, and you should hit a 12.4-12.5.

Thanks.

Boost control with the manual controller seemed to go away when I ran boost up to 21. The stock boost controller is there, easy to switch back although the manual controller seemed to do a better, at least back down around 19. Easy to check though.

The 02 is the narrow band feed off the WB, grounds checked perfect on the install but will take another look.

Fuel is an ongoing issue, and the key to better times. Every trip to the track is another chance to learn. I'll bring up the "initial" on the alky and cut back total and give that a try. I know it's helped before.

BTW What's a good number to shoot for on the WB air/fuel ratio at FT with alky spraying?

The track should be prepped well this Sat (track prep on Wed is a crap shoot) so I'll see how it goes.

Thanks much for the comments/ideas.

 

[turbodig]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Thanks.

Boost control with the manual controller seemed to go away when I ran boost up to 21. The stock boost controller is there, easy to switch back although the manual controller seemed to do a better, at least back down around 19. Easy to check though.

The boost control that was programmed into the Ultimate wasn't terribly good.
You'll need a boost control reprogram to make it do what it should do. There's no point in hooking it up if it hasn't been changed from the original.

The 02 is the narrow band feed off the WB, grounds checked perfect on the install but will take another look.

Ahh... that'd explain that. Looks like you need a noise filter cap on the WB input.
Is your Ultimate patched for your WB? AFR was pinned at 10.0, either it ain't hooked up, or it isn't patched right.

Fuel is an ongoing issue, and the key to better times. Every trip to the track is another chance to learn. I'll bring up the "initial" on the alky and cut back total and give that a try. I know it's helped before.

The problem there is that your truck looks like it needs fuel at low RPM, and not at higher RPM. Your alky controller won't do that.

BTW What's a good number to shoot for on the WB air/fuel ratio at FT with alky spraying?
.

It varies from truck to truck. Some like high 10s, some in the mid 11s. Take out total from where you're at slowly, and watch knock. Most people think that having knock means that you automatically need more fuel; sometimes the exact opposite is true.

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Well just FYI. Ultimate is not patched, hope to do that later this spring. (Might do a whole new chip or code 59) The WB does have the noise filter cap. I double and triple checked the wires, belling them out, etc to make sure I had the correct pair. Fuel at lower RPM? I agree that seems to be what my truck likes. And yes, just adding meth, for example, can make knock (or at least the appearance of knock by the amount of advance being pulled) worse.

BTW Ultimate is currently set for T2 timing.

Really appreciate the comments.

 

[turbodig]

Re: New best DM files added

Re: New best DM files added

Well just FYI. Ultimate is not patched, hope to do that later this spring. (Might do a whole new chip or code 59) The WB does have the noise filter cap. I double and triple checked the wires, belling them out, etc to make sure I had the correct pair. Fuel at lower RPM? I agree that seems to be what my truck likes. And yes, just adding meth, for example, can make knock (or at least the appearance of knock by the amount of advance being pulled) worse.

BTW Ultimate is currently set for T2 timing.

Really appreciate the comments.

I'd get it patched sooner vs. later. If you have a common ultimate version I can send you a prepatched PROM fairly reasonable. (PM for details)

Having the WB data in the stream answers a lot of questions.

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best UPDATED

Re: New best UPDATED

Further update. Went to Infineon today (Sat), Summit ET series. Now ya gotta remember on Wed nights Infineon is invariably quite windy with the wind blowing right down the track. However this is AM, so no wind, hmmm. First run I get horrendous tire spin, with the truck darn near sideways at the line. Short time are horrible but I trapped at 106.45 About 2 mph faster then I've ever gone. Second run, still no wind, launch a little softer trying to keep boost at -0-, vac at -0-. Truck runs 12.497 @ 106.17, never been that quick, broke 12.5. First elimination I red light, run it through at less than FT (have to look at DM to know for sure) and it still runs 12.719 @ 103.79.

now I'm thinkin' there may be even more in this thing. Launch control is becoming a real problem, which, of course, is not the trucks fault. I'll be looking for a 2 step real soon.

As an aside, on the way to the track, pulled onto a mile+ long stretch of pavement (as opposed to Calif's patented washboard concrete) and just sort of laid into it and hit 120 with no prob. Fun...

I have 2 people to thank for all this: Tooky and Dig, for encouragement and hints/feedback.

Thanks guys!

 

[Tooky]

Re: New best NEW UPDATE

12.4, Don! That's FANTASTIC!!! I knew you could go fast but honestly I didn't expect it so soon! The list of Syclones who have gone 12.4 or faster on a Stock Turbo is a small one indeed! (maybe a dozen).

You know it's funny when I think of the other thread on launching - everyone was telling you to launch the piss out of it. All the launches I have ever done were between 0-7 PSI (very conservative compared to some I've seen). Now you try a softer launch and it runs 12.4, imagine that!!

Here's some more "against the grain" advice. Shift it at 45-4600!! Here's the DataMaster run from my record 12.26 @ 108.6 stock turbo/DP/WG pass:

Every truck is a little different but at the same time, all the evidence I've seen tells me the stock heads & cam take a nose dive after ~4600!

Better yet - try it both ways and compare results!

Congrats again on a fast truck. :tup:

 

[turbodig]

Re: New best UPDATED

Re: New best UPDATED

First run I get horrendous tire spin, with the truck darn near sideways at the line. Short time are horrible but I trapped at 106.45 About 2 mph faster then I've ever gone. Second run, still no wind, launch a little softer trying to keep boost at -0-, vac at -0-. Truck runs 12.497 @ 106.17, never been that quick, broke 12.5. First elimination I red light, run it through at less than FT (have to look at DM to know for sure) and it still runs 12.719 @ 103.79.

now I'm thinkin' there may be even more in this thing. Launch control is becoming a real problem, which, of course, is not the trucks fault. I'll be looking for a 2 step real soon.

It always seems there's a line at ~12.50 where traction becomes a bigger problem, big enough that it prevents you from going any faster. (Without good sticky rubber, that-is)

A buck-6 is flyin' through the traps, though. Good AM air workin' for ya.
A good ice-down of the IC might get you a couple more ticks.

As Tooky said, play with the shifts to find the sweet spot. The shift RPM is less important than the pulldown RPM. You want to keep the pulldown RPM right where torque is at or near the max. You want to use the low RPM torque as much as possible, while limiting the time at 4800 and above where the cam/head falls down.

As you said, there's more in it, but it hinges on getting it all to stick. Do you have front end limiters on it?

 

[SY2932]

Re: New best NEW UPDATE

AWESOME Don! Dang, your truck is FLYING ! You shooting for a new stock turbo record or what

? CONGRATS on the new best

!

 

[Don W.]

Re: New best UPDATED

Re: New best UPDATED

As Tooky said, play with the shifts to find the sweet spot. The shift RPM is less important than the pulldown RPM. You want to keep the pulldown RPM right where torque is at or near the max.

I agree fully on this. Most, non SyTY, people seem to want to wind the piss out of their motor but if, like you say, we make the shift so we end up at peak torque ET's will generally improve.


​

As you said, there's more in it, but it hinges on getting it all to stick. Do you have front end limiters on it?

Nope, and in my opinion, not needed.