performance increases.
- Thread starter gjp
- Start date
midnightbluS10
Banned
Re: performance increases.
5.793 hp
5.793 hp
SyTyJedi
Jedi Council
Re: performance increases.
I didn't notice "tuning" on your list so I'm going to have to say 0 hp.
Heads may give you some power, but they are not the restriciton at this point. The stock heads outflow the stock turbo.
A2A will get you some power. Assuming a smaller pressure drop than the stock 2.5psi, the turbo will be more in it's effeciency range.
Turbo/DP would be the most bolt on HP. Looks like you are setup GREAT for a big turbo. You have good injectors and converter.
All 3 would definitely open things up big time, because it's all about the...yup, you know what i'm going to say.....been said for 100 years....COMBINATION. The right parts together with the right tuning will make that truck a beast. The computer has to know everything you do about the new combo. It's not a mind reader, you gotta tell it about the bigger tubo, etc.
I'm sure you know this - you've got Phil's chip already, so I'm sure you have worked with him on tuning. I'm just saying this for everyone to read and learn.
Get those installed and make some power!
FYI - I would go with Vortec heads over the L35s. Bigger cost, but so much more power potential.
I didn't notice "tuning" on your list so I'm going to have to say 0 hp.
Heads may give you some power, but they are not the restriciton at this point. The stock heads outflow the stock turbo.
A2A will get you some power. Assuming a smaller pressure drop than the stock 2.5psi, the turbo will be more in it's effeciency range.
Turbo/DP would be the most bolt on HP. Looks like you are setup GREAT for a big turbo. You have good injectors and converter.
All 3 would definitely open things up big time, because it's all about the...yup, you know what i'm going to say.....been said for 100 years....COMBINATION. The right parts together with the right tuning will make that truck a beast. The computer has to know everything you do about the new combo. It's not a mind reader, you gotta tell it about the bigger tubo, etc.
I'm sure you know this - you've got Phil's chip already, so I'm sure you have worked with him on tuning. I'm just saying this for everyone to read and learn.Get those installed and make some power!
FYI - I would go with Vortec heads over the L35s. Bigger cost, but so much more power potential.
gjp
another post whore
Re: performance increases.
My goals are not that big. I am just ooking for 450hp in the end. I have done tunning. At 18psi with 91 oct I see 4* of KR at most. With 100 I see just a hint of KR on 18 psi. Truck will miss bad once in a while when very hot.
I just dont want to drop 4k for nothing. What I am asking is what would be worth wild combo with some good power increases. I want to get rid of stock IC to clean up engine and maybe lower my air temps. Thanks for the info. Can the chip be tunned by sending it back with a list of mods?? I know its not as good as him tunning while on the truck but would it help. I need to send him the chip for a smog tune anyways. I know vortec are much better but I dont plan on making that much power to need them.
My goals are not that big. I am just ooking for 450hp in the end. I have done tunning. At 18psi with 91 oct I see 4* of KR at most. With 100 I see just a hint of KR on 18 psi. Truck will miss bad once in a while when very hot.
I just dont want to drop 4k for nothing. What I am asking is what would be worth wild combo with some good power increases. I want to get rid of stock IC to clean up engine and maybe lower my air temps. Thanks for the info. Can the chip be tunned by sending it back with a list of mods?? I know its not as good as him tunning while on the truck but would it help. I need to send him the chip for a smog tune anyways. I know vortec are much better but I dont plan on making that much power to need them.
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: performance increases.
I agree with tuning will be need to get the most out of this mod. For they and work involve its probably not your best $/hp spent.
Technically that is incorrect, as boost is really a measure of intake restriction. The cam and heads our trucks have is pathetic, they are equavalent what would be found on low hp 305/350 V8's in the 80's. However turbo (and other forced induction) will somewhat make up for intake deficiency's. Turbo Buick's have an even worse flowing set of heads (but are less knock resistant).
SyTyJedi said:
I agree with tuning will be need to get the most out of this mod. For they and work involve its probably not your best $/hp spent.
Technically that is incorrect, as boost is really a measure of intake restriction. The cam and heads our trucks have is pathetic, they are equavalent what would be found on low hp 305/350 V8's in the 80's. However turbo (and other forced induction) will somewhat make up for intake deficiency's. Turbo Buick's have an even worse flowing set of heads (but are less knock resistant).
JSM
Active member
Re: performance increases.
Just because your truck doesn't knock, that has no bearing on "TUNE"
Knock is only a sign of are you currently doing damage to engine, not how well it is tuned. I could build a chip that would never knock if you wanted. Just be ready to pick up the 17 second time slips when you go to the track.
For 450hp you will need a bigger turbo and 3" downpipe for sure. Depending how big you go, etc you might need a convertor. If you go heads do vortecs and be done. heads, turbo, and tune will get you 450hp if you do it right and mid 11's truck with ease.
Just because your truck doesn't knock, that has no bearing on "TUNE"
Knock is only a sign of are you currently doing damage to engine, not how well it is tuned. I could build a chip that would never knock if you wanted. Just be ready to pick up the 17 second time slips when you go to the track.
For 450hp you will need a bigger turbo and 3" downpipe for sure. Depending how big you go, etc you might need a convertor. If you go heads do vortecs and be done. heads, turbo, and tune will get you 450hp if you do it right and mid 11's truck with ease.
gjp
another post whore
Re: performance increases.
I know my truck needs some chip tunning. I have done as much as I can with what I have. I would love and be willing to pay to have soeone dyno-tune my truck. I know the importance of a good tune. The most I can do it to make sure the WBo2 is showing good numbers, the DM looks good. and I am not pulling any timming. I have tried different plugs, adjusted my FP about 20 times and replaced just about every sensor in the truck. It feels strong but have yet to take it to the track. It does smoke on startup. It used to blow black smoke @ WOT but I fixed that. I want a strong good running truck and not a track monster(only will hit the track few times a year). I will be happy with mid 11's and I have 5-6k to do it. (if I can be done) Thats why I was thinking the pte 52 because it can run on my 2800stall. You say the heads yeild no HP increase but I should spend 1k more to get vortecs??? The extra money for the vortecs could go to Alky kit and that should help more? I forgot to add I will get alky too with the other mods. Thanks for your help. What should I do with my cash then. You have all been there already and I just dont want to waste my cash because it will be a while before I spend this much on my truck again. I will also be adding a gilbert shaft , a 2" cowl hood and a brake kit. And yes I want your opinion....Thanks
I know my truck needs some chip tunning. I have done as much as I can with what I have. I would love and be willing to pay to have soeone dyno-tune my truck. I know the importance of a good tune. The most I can do it to make sure the WBo2 is showing good numbers, the DM looks good. and I am not pulling any timming. I have tried different plugs, adjusted my FP about 20 times and replaced just about every sensor in the truck. It feels strong but have yet to take it to the track. It does smoke on startup. It used to blow black smoke @ WOT but I fixed that. I want a strong good running truck and not a track monster(only will hit the track few times a year). I will be happy with mid 11's and I have 5-6k to do it. (if I can be done) Thats why I was thinking the pte 52 because it can run on my 2800stall. You say the heads yeild no HP increase but I should spend 1k more to get vortecs??? The extra money for the vortecs could go to Alky kit and that should help more? I forgot to add I will get alky too with the other mods. Thanks for your help. What should I do with my cash then. You have all been there already and I just dont want to waste my cash because it will be a while before I spend this much on my truck again. I will also be adding a gilbert shaft , a 2" cowl hood and a brake kit. And yes I want your opinion....Thanks
QUICK STORM
B.A.M.F. BMW Tech
Re: performance increases.
if you want ported and polished intake manifolds, get vortecs and be done with it.
if you want ported and polished intake manifolds, get vortecs and be done with it.
QUICK STORM
B.A.M.F. BMW Tech
Re: performance increases.
its stock and has about 70K miles
its stock and has about 70K miles
gjp
another post whore
Re: performance increases.
stock internals with 90k. compression is 155-164 on all cyl.
Sorry. It was someone else that stated heads yield little power. Blows white smoke at startup .I want to get rid of that.
Vortec heads from rpm with all work are 2.5k
I can get built L35 heads for 600$
But if you tell me the vortecs will make that much difference on a stock motor with a larger turbo I will do it.Thats why I am asking. I am not a mechanic, just an electrician who is good with tools and can do the work but I lack the knowledge to know what to do. Thats why I am asking. You guys are know much more then I do on these engines. thinking about doing pistons and rods too but Mike lee said if compression test and leakdown shows good just keep the internals. The truck was just about stock when I got it and most of the millage was said to be highway.
stock internals with 90k. compression is 155-164 on all cyl.
Sorry. It was someone else that stated heads yield little power. Blows white smoke at startup .I want to get rid of that.
Vortec heads from rpm with all work are 2.5k
I can get built L35 heads for 600$
But if you tell me the vortecs will make that much difference on a stock motor with a larger turbo I will do it.Thats why I am asking. I am not a mechanic, just an electrician who is good with tools and can do the work but I lack the knowledge to know what to do. Thats why I am asking. You guys are know much more then I do on these engines. thinking about doing pistons and rods too but Mike lee said if compression test and leakdown shows good just keep the internals. The truck was just about stock when I got it and most of the millage was said to be highway.
QUICK STORM
B.A.M.F. BMW Tech
Re: performance increases.
well, if your going to keep the stock internals go with L-35s. anything over stock will benifit you greatly. i would recommend a cam as well. your on the right track with turbo/downpipe/heads.
well, if your going to keep the stock internals go with L-35s. anything over stock will benifit you greatly. i would recommend a cam as well. your on the right track with turbo/downpipe/heads.
JSM
Active member
Re: performance increases.
l35's are better than stock but not much.
If you are resourceful vortec heads can be done for a lot cheaper than $2500. Just depends how much running around you want to do, and searching on your own.
I personally would leave motor alone, put a nice turbo, intercooler, alky on. Plan on some other issues (tranny failure, brakes, etc.) and tune. Enjoy the truck that way. Avoid pulling apart a good running motor.
Now if you had the motor out for a rebuild I would go vortec for sure. My buddy threw a set of vortecs in garbage that would have almost been bolt on for someone. I tend to tell people not to pull a good running motor apart.
Mid/high 11's is doable on stock motor if properly done.
l35's are better than stock but not much.
If you are resourceful vortec heads can be done for a lot cheaper than $2500. Just depends how much running around you want to do, and searching on your own.
I personally would leave motor alone, put a nice turbo, intercooler, alky on. Plan on some other issues (tranny failure, brakes, etc.) and tune. Enjoy the truck that way. Avoid pulling apart a good running motor.
Now if you had the motor out for a rebuild I would go vortec for sure. My buddy threw a set of vortecs in garbage that would have almost been bolt on for someone. I tend to tell people not to pull a good running motor apart.
Mid/high 11's is doable on stock motor if properly done.
SyTyJedi
Jedi Council
Re: performance increases.
We are saying the same thing here I think. What I stated is definitely correct. If you put a larger turbo on a stock motor, you will go much faster and gain huge top end. Exhaust flow plays a big part in that, as the stocker causes a huge amount of backpressure. Pressure can be a measure of restriction anywhere, be it intake or exhaust. Like you said, forced induction will definitely improve on poor flow, as long as it isn't the restriction itself.
Edit: It's harder to determine if you removed a restriction in a turbo car because you are controlling boost pressure. You can still run 15psi on a larger turbo, but you will see much better ET/MPH due to flow increase. It's easy to tell on a supercharged car if you add header and lose 2 psi, yet still make more power.
dgoodhue said:
We are saying the same thing here I think. What I stated is definitely correct. If you put a larger turbo on a stock motor, you will go much faster and gain huge top end. Exhaust flow plays a big part in that, as the stocker causes a huge amount of backpressure. Pressure can be a measure of restriction anywhere, be it intake or exhaust. Like you said, forced induction will definitely improve on poor flow, as long as it isn't the restriction itself.
Edit: It's harder to determine if you removed a restriction in a turbo car because you are controlling boost pressure. You can still run 15psi on a larger turbo, but you will see much better ET/MPH due to flow increase. It's easy to tell on a supercharged car if you add header and lose 2 psi, yet still make more power.
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gjp
another post whore
Re: performance increases.
Thats what Mike Lee at rpm said.
Trans has a good build. and since it was built I have only done $ boost launces on it.LOL. The brakes are in need of changing, propshaft is origional stock. (reason of no boost launces)
Best way to get rid of startup smoke??? besides driving it once every 8 hours
Thats what Mike Lee at rpm said.
Trans has a good build. and since it was built I have only done $ boost launces on it.LOL. The brakes are in need of changing, propshaft is origional stock. (reason of no boost launces)
Best way to get rid of startup smoke??? besides driving it once every 8 hours
QUICK STORM
B.A.M.F. BMW Tech
Re: performance increases.
i have a dynotech shaft i could sell to you for like $50
i have a dynotech shaft i could sell to you for like $50
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: performance increases.
Not to take anything away from the engine builders but a stock short block & cam with $2500 Vortec are probably overkill. I have suspicion that the stock intake manifold will not flow (CFM wise) much more than a set of lightly port Vortecs. If it does, I imagine (especially with a stock cam) the hp returns will diminishing. On bigger build this is probably not true.
I have Vortecs, its going to cost me about $700 for a conversion (I did mine a little differently than the following). I am basically going to use stock low mileage vortec's with stock valves. Turbotime $280 for intake conversion, Less than $200 for low mileage Vortec heads, $75 drill them, plus valve job, & port matching intake to head miss matches.
On the intake port side
Stock heads flow 150 cfm
L35's 170 cfm
Vortec's 215cfm
Unless those used L35 head that someone paid a lot more for porting, I would be willing to bet a $600 set of L35 will not flow 215cfm. Without extensive (read expensive) porting a good set of ported L35 will flow around 220-230 cfm. Larger Valves & a valve job will eat up more than half that $ and that leaves very little $ for porting. (Vortec also can be cleaned up and ported to 230-240 cfm very easily)
A big positive of Vortec's is they are more resistant to detonation, the Ultimate chip programs use 6 degree more timing. You might even get more Hp from the timing than the addition cylinder heads flow.
gjp said:
Not to take anything away from the engine builders but a stock short block & cam with $2500 Vortec are probably overkill. I have suspicion that the stock intake manifold will not flow (CFM wise) much more than a set of lightly port Vortecs. If it does, I imagine (especially with a stock cam) the hp returns will diminishing. On bigger build this is probably not true.
I have Vortecs, its going to cost me about $700 for a conversion (I did mine a little differently than the following). I am basically going to use stock low mileage vortec's with stock valves. Turbotime $280 for intake conversion, Less than $200 for low mileage Vortec heads, $75 drill them, plus valve job, & port matching intake to head miss matches.
On the intake port side
Stock heads flow 150 cfm
L35's 170 cfm
Vortec's 215cfm
Unless those used L35 head that someone paid a lot more for porting, I would be willing to bet a $600 set of L35 will not flow 215cfm. Without extensive (read expensive) porting a good set of ported L35 will flow around 220-230 cfm. Larger Valves & a valve job will eat up more than half that $ and that leaves very little $ for porting. (Vortec also can be cleaned up and ported to 230-240 cfm very easily)
A big positive of Vortec's is they are more resistant to detonation, the Ultimate chip programs use 6 degree more timing. You might even get more Hp from the timing than the addition cylinder heads flow.