Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

[tbauer03]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

so do we need a 27 spline or a 32 spline if we have a stock typhoon transfer case?

 

[JSM]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

so do we need a 27 spline or a 32 spline if we have a stock typhoon transfer case?

Bone stock transfer case you need 27 spline output shaft.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

Personally, I'd rather tear a t-case apart to put an input shaft, than tear a 4L80E apart to get to the output shaft.

I wouldn't mind having a 32-spline input around, as an option.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

Bone stock transfer case you need 27 spline output shaft.

Clarity:

You can make a 4l80e fit (from a spline perspective) one of 2 ways-

Switch the 32-spline 4l80e output shaft with a modified 27-spline shaft and leave the t-case alone.

-or-

Change the t-case input shaft to a 32-spline input shaft, and leave the trans alone.

 

[JSM]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

Been crunching some numbers.

Based on material composition I researched before of.

Carbon - 0.50%

Silicon - 0.12%Manganese - 1.53%Phosphorous - 0.007%Sulfur - 0.020%Chromium - 0.13%Nickel - 0.066%Molybdenum - 0.015%Copper - 0.12%Aluminum - 0.024%Iron - 97.5%


output shaft Yield Strength (where it starts to deform)

• Cut down 27 spline - 1057 ft/lbs
• Stock Output 32 spline - 1764 ft lbs
• 4340 Annealed 27 spline - 1382 ft lbs
• 4340 Annealed 32 Spline - 2306 ft lbs
• 4340 heat treated 27 spline - 2317 ft lbs
• 4340 heat treated 32 spline - 3866 ft lbs

So I am debating, I have yet to turn the power up and only got 2k miles out of this so far. Not sure the stock shaft will be enough. Debating no doing a full custom output shaft from 4340 now. Just not sure yet but I want to share all my data with everybody else.

Tomorrow I may calculate what the input shaft can handle once it is cut open to 32 spline. That was my issue before is it will become weaker.

 

[washclone]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

Put me down for 1

 

[turbodig]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

[/LIST]So I am debating, I have yet to turn the power up and only got 2k miles out of this so far. Not sure the stock shaft will be enough. Debating no doing a full custom output shaft from 4340 now. Just not sure yet but I want to share all my data with everybody else.

Tomorrow I may calculate what the input shaft can handle once it is cut open to 32 spline. That was my issue before is it will become weaker.

I'm fairly sure this isn't what you want to hear, but output shaft strength wasn't your problem.
I doubt you made more than 1000 ft-lbs.

What killed it, was the jackhammering effect that comes from the front tires slipping/catching/slipping.

 

[JSM]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

I'm fairly sure this isn't what you want to hear, but output shaft strength wasn't your problem.
I doubt you made more than 1000 ft-lbs.

What killed it, was the jackhammering effect that comes from the front tires slipping/catching/slipping.

I know that, fatigue/shock loading makes things a lot worse.

My right foot being amputated would be simple solution, but homie don't play that.

So I just ordered $300 in material, and just committed myself to hours upon hours in garage machining parts now for some 1 off custom stuff. Not like anything else is custom on my truck.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

So can you make it harder? Nitride it or something?

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

How many cycles would you really have gotten? I can't honestly see that the tyres catching and slipping and catching was the problem on such limited mileage. There are faster trucks that don't seem to have that problem, maybe not Typhoons but it does seem odd.

Probably wrong, someone school me?

 

[bezerk]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

your transfercase is still alright? you prolly checked it, but if the chain broke or something, and it got stuck?

 

[mattw]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

So I just ordered $300 in material, and just committed myself to hours upon hours in garage machining parts now for some 1 off custom stuff. Not like anything else is custom on my truck.

So what material did you order? Are you just going to make a 27 spline output shaft out of stronger metal?

 

[tbauer03]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

So do you make 32 spline input shafts for the transfer case as well?

I know George Blake had stuff like that but we all know that story and I haven't seen any other vendors really step up and offer the 4l80e support and services that he had in the past.

Anyway I know it's tough with this small group and I Thank You for your support on these matters and everything else syty related.

Props for keeping the innovation wheels turning. :tup:

 

[Foot Performance]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

So do you make 32 spline input shafts for the transfer case as well?

I think more of have to since the truck is broken. So if he does do a group buy I would get in on it becuase they may just be a here and there thing:tup:

 

[JSM]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

It will probably be a 1 time group deal unless the supplier agrees to stock them or build them on low quantity for you guys.

In the end I have the machines to do what I need, just not setup well for mass production. I am going to go all out on mine, but I am also going to test something for you guys on a budget mindset until it fails, just for you guys.

More to come.

BTW ordered 4340 annealed, will machine, send to heat treat, then bring back for final grinding.

Cut down 27 spine is little over 1k ft lbs of torque, new output I am doing will be 3800, obviously won't be weak link anymore. For first shot going to purposely make one in transfer case to see what happens.

 

[JSM]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

I agree 110% with your math Dave. I will add the #'s I used are yield (start to bend) ultimate strength is about double that (Breaking point). Hence why it last for awhile.

 

[Upgrade]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

I'm fairly sure this isn't what you want to hear, but output shaft strength wasn't your problem.
I doubt you made more than 1000 ft-lbs.

What killed it, was the jackhammering effect that comes from the front tires slipping/catching/slipping.

600 ftlbs x stator torque multiplier (2.0) for a crap converter x 2.48 1st gear ratio =2976 ft lbs
There aren't a lot of mechanical losses that first second or so and a 2.0 isn't a good stator ratio.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

So what will be the next weak link?

The trans output shaft? Are you making that as well?

 

['JustDreamin']

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

600 ftlbs x stator torque multiplier (2.0) for a crap converter x 2.48 1st gear ratio =2976 ft lbs
There aren't a lot of mechanical losses that first second or so and a 2.0 isn't a good stator ratio.

That's a pretty stout number. 3000 ft lbs....nothing to sneeze at.


And I'm not sure that comparing yield strength values gives us the best picture (since we have some idea of the loads that the shaft will see). Also, I wonder how the yield strength value was used (used as is, or modified to predict it's torsional yield strength (ie did you multiply by .577 to get an approximation of torsional yield strength)).

Either way, I'd say that Jeff is getting alot closer to the design limits of those components (trans output, tcase input) than he'd like to be, even in 4340 / 300M / unobtanium. For the kinds of loads we're talking about, it'd be best to have bigger shaft diameters.

'JustDreamin'

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Possible 32 spline input shaft GP

Are there any other transfer cases available or is it military grade HWMMV stuff we're moving onto here?