Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

[JayLo]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

if the lc1 is providing a narrow band simulation signal, how's it any better to use as a tuning aid then a good conventional o2 sensor?

The LC-1 has two outputs. Narrow band (0-1v) is one. The other is wideband (0-5v). Also, the narrow band signal is not the same as a stock O2 sensor, which typically has a very steep slope.

On the LC1, the user can decide what AFR is 1volt and what AFR is 0volt, effectively allowing you to make whatever slope you desire. This increases the accuracy across a range when displayed on an AFR gauge compared to just feeding an OEM O2 sensor output to the same gauge. Obviously, we fed the 5 volt signal to MegaSquirt and tune from that. The AFR gauge is just a failsafe.

also, be aware innovate seels a sensor heatsink allowing it to go into places hotter then it normally should, like header collector, or if it'll fit, and oem sy manifold.

I?m not sure exactly what you meant. We installed the LC-1 according to the manual.

http://innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

The OEM O2 sensor is still in place for use with the PCM. It could potentially get too hot there (and maybe too turbulent as well) to install the LC-1?s sensor (temps should be below 900? F) so we installed the bung where the cat was. Since the sensor has a built in heating element (it?s the same as the portable LM-1 unit, which I also have), it can be installed as far from the turbo as needed.

Hopefully we?ll get some more tuning/debugging done tomorrow. That?s the plan, anyway.
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[rockvillespeed]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

sorry, i cant type for shit.
i meant to say:
innovate doesnt want teh sensor getting too hot, as u noted.
for those occassions where it needs to be someplace too hot, they sell a heatsinking bushing to mount the sensor in so it doesn't get overly roasted.

 

[Silverback]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

The claim is that no matter what you do you can’t install it in something like a turbo manifold because of the pressure (everything I’m quoting is straight from the LC-1 manual that you can find here):

“On TURBO CHARGED vehicles:
Install the bung downstream from the turbo before the catalytic converter. The high exhaust pressure before the turbo interferes with the lambda measurement and the high exhaust temperatures encountered there can damage the sensor.”

WRT heat:

“The maximum temperature of the sensor at the bung (the sensor hexagon) should not exceed 500 oC or 900 oF. If these temperatures are exceeded in your application you should either install a copper heat sink (instructions below) or the Innovate Motorsports Heat-Sink Bung extender (HBX-1).
The bung extender is recommended for situations where airflow is restricted or the encountered heat is higher than a heat sink can handle.”

WRT to a heatsink:

For that matter, if it’s just a minor issue and you have some room you could just use a spark plug antifouler…

The LC-1 has two outputs. Narrow band (0-1v) is one. The other is wideband (0-5v). Also, the narrow band signal is not the same as a stock O2 sensor, which typically has a very steep slope.

The first analog output is programmed to simulate a normal lambda curve (narrow band O2 curve with it’s steep slope) where the second is programmed to simulate any linear curve from 0-5vdc (both can be changed with programming).

The 1st analog output is supposed to essentially give you something that is the same as the output of a NB O2, and I’m sure it does WRT to range, but I’m not sure that it does WRT to actual fluctuations (like as in if the O2 counts will work on a stock ECM, since the stock ecm doesn’t care about the voltage output of the O2 sensor but how many times it crosses 450mV and how much time it spends above or below that value since “it knows” that the stock O2 is worthless for anything besides a “is it rich or lean” reading” like you can get from the flashing check engine light if you jumper it into field diagnostic mode while you have it running). I suspect that judging from their published curve it would have to give reasonably accurate O2 counts, but I’ve never had the time to really test this with a real datalog to see if it’s working correctly or if it’s just close enough that an OEM ecm doesn’t throw a code.

OTOH, the slick thing with the second analog output is that I have an old school, “pretty blinking lights” cyberdyne O2 guage that I hook up to that output reprogrammed for a linear 0-1V curve that suddenly becomes something useful, with the center LED actually showing stoich and the linear output allowing the bottom LED to show about 7:1 and the top to show about 22:1 (at some point I intend to scale that so that the bottom LED shows about 10:1 and the top about 18:1 making it a even little more useful for tuning at a glance)

 

[JayLo]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Well, it looks like we finally got the bugs worked out. Our problem was that we were trying to squirt alternating banks of injectors once each per engine cycle.

Around 10psi or so the required fuel pushed the injector pulse width past 25.5ms, the upper limit of this injector configuration in MS. Once Scott figured this out, he change the MegaSquirt to spray to smaller squirts per cycle (1 per revolution) and BIGGITYBAM, problem solved. Now 14ms pulses net us a super fat 9:1 up top.

I?ll probably tune for 11.5:1.

For those who want to get started right away, here are links to the software/firmware we are using.

MegaTune Version 2.25b717 (free program for tuning everything in MegaSquirt):
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/files/megatune/mt225b717_setup.exe

MegaSquirt?n?Spark Firmware (adds HEI spark control to standard MS unit)
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/files/Extra024s13c.zip

MegaSquirt Log Visual Viewer (Datalogging software for MegaSquirt)
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/files/log_viewer/mslvv225b9_setup.exe

I apologize that it has taken this long. As with any first, there were quite a few challenges, but I think this will prove to be a very solid and flexible (not to mention inexpensive) platform for tuning our trucks.

I?ll try and get the other documentation for wiring the MS unit into our trucks as well as diagrams for adding the few jumpers (it is very basic soldiering even I could do) for HEI compatibility in the next week or two.

Since MegaTune has a TON of screens and settings (some of which I still don?t fully understand) I?ll also post a screen shot of each MegaTune screen so anyone can get their truck up and running regardless of how well they understand the software.

Eventually, I?ll either put up a website with the instructions or put everything in a downloadable *.zip file or both.

More to come?
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[JayLo]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Update:

I?m relieved to say that any MS problems (mainly erratic TPS behavior) I alluded to in the previous posts were not related to the MS install.

The other weekend we were probing the wiring with an oscilloscope trying to figure out what was causing the noise in the factory ground wires. It ends up that the thing that was vexing us all along was the damn LC-1 internal heater. As soon as we disconnected that, BIGGITY BAM, problem solved: no TPS noise, no unwanted acceleration enrichments, etc.

In hindsight, Innovate even mentions in the LC-1 manual that the 12v circuit for the heating element needs to be grounded away from everything else. However, mine is so noisy, even a chassis ground away from the MS equipment will affect the other ground voltages. I may have a bad LC-1 unit. We?ll see.

Anyway, I am eager to get this sucker to the track this summer. I want some times on MS with the stock motor/turbo before I go the route of a ball-bearing PTE-61, larger injectors and broken trannys. :tup:

For those interested, Scott is doing MS installs/tunes on two built Typhoons in the Omaha area (both crank trigger systems). I?ll ditch the HEI setup as soon as I have a solid HEI tune I can share with anyone interested on this board. I?m sick of distributors and burnt cap/rotors.
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[DynaGlide]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Any updates on how your truck is running? I'm super curious, as this is the route I'm most likely to go.

 

[ashman]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

before you make the leap...hold out for the $59 code. according to Jeff Scott, it shouldn't be much longer. i can't think of anything MS will do that $59 won't do also.

 

[DynaGlide]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Great, more stuff to read about. I just need to poop some time to take it all in.

 

[Jer]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

I just need to poop some time to take it all in.

Or to put it all out.

 

[torquetuning]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

does any one know if the ecu is the same as the older 80's??

diy sells a ecu converter board that looks like it would make it easier to install this for my bro inlaw but im not sure what ecu is in his 92 ty and my mitchells computer is acting wonky..

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/....html?osCsid=3f437542a9ed7adfc23c3795ab07eb24

 

[turbodig]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

does any one know if the ecu is the same as the older 80's??

diy sells a ecu converter board that looks like it would make it easier to install this for my bro inlaw but im not sure what ecu is in his 92 ty and my mitchells computer is acting wonky..

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/....html?osCsid=3f437542a9ed7adfc23c3795ab07eb24

Nope.. not the same.

 

[torquetuning]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Nope.. not the same.

89 -92 is the same according to mitchells for jimmys

also the same ecu style (going from wiring digram and plug design) listed for 87 c/k1500 i think this is the way to go for megasquirting your chevy

 

[torquetuning]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

89 -92 is the same according to mitchell's for jimmy's

also the same ecu style (going from wiring diagram and plug design) listed for 87 c/k1500 i think this is the way to go for megasquirting your chevy

you can see here in the image that there is only one injector wire

looks like injector 2 isnt hooked up but a jumper under the board could be run easily.

also pdfs of the 92 typhoon ecu wiring are here

http://nwerdt.com/shared/ms_stuff/GMC-typhoon/

 

[JSM]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

I would do a bit more research about our ecm before you make that assumption. As did just said it isn't the same ECM.

The real PDF's you want are at www.nwstp.com.

 

[torquetuning]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

I would do a bit more research about our ecm before you make that assumption. As did just said it isn't the same ECM.

The real PDF's you want are at www.nwstp.com.

Matt from diyautotune will be sending me the complete pinout for the adapter board and i will go over it with a fien tune comb and report my findings

thanks for he link.

 

[torquetuning]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

here is the actual pin out of the adapter board from diy auto tune

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/adapter_boards/gmtbi746_747_to_ms_schematics.pdf


my peliminary is that the digram i was linked to labels connector pins c-e d-f

the pinout from mitchells matches the boards pinout. i will look over the diagram i was linked to and verify it if so this means there is a PLUG and PLAY ms solution availible for syty users. hopefully my bro-in-law Rob is the first guy to do it .

 

[JSM]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

I am curious what your goals are to switch over?

 

[turbodig]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

Says right on the schematic it's for a '747 which is a 2-connector ECM. The '749 is a 3 connector ECM.

You can probably make something work out of this, but it'd be far from "plug-in".

Caspers electronics makes a 3-connector board for DFI/FAST use. You could probably adapt this to the megasquirt harness much easier.

Kinda surprised he doesn't make an adapter for the '749/730... there's a pretty big market for it.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

89 -92 is the same according to mitchells for jimmys

also the same ecu style (going from wiring digram and plug design) listed for 87 c/k1500 i think this is the way to go for megasquirting your chevy

Except, it ain't a regular 4.3 Jimmy. Completely different ECM, wiring, sensors, etc.

 

[torquetuning]

Re: Squirt Squirt: The "How To MegaSquirt your SyTy" Thread

damn mitchells strikes again lol


well i guess ill have to find one of those ecus and see if the plug could be made to fit it