Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

GEMELLI

The Best of Both Worlds
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

Double check that the battery terminals aren't corroded. I have to clean and reseal my positive terminal every few months or so. If I let it go too long, it can make it real hard to start.
 

jimmyz79

Re-Member
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

Got the same issue. Purple wire looks OK, I was thinking that my solenoid is krapping out...
 

gkrcr882

SyTyless......for now!
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

Sounds like the starter is crapping out. Good time to put in a 454 starter and re-route or insulate the purple wire while you're in there.
 

KyS10

Donating Member
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

I apologize if I'm not understanding something here, but should this mod correct the issue shown in the video in the first post. My Ty has been doing this since I bought it. It will click once when I try to start it. It will usually do this two or three times and then fire up just fine. I haven't gotten around to messing with it yet because I've had higher priority things to fix on it and I wasn't sure what was causing it. I didn't really want to just start throwing parts at it in hopes something would fix it. If this could solve my issue then I may go ahead and try to fix it.
 

randy merritt

Donating Member
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

I apologize if I'm not understanding something here, but should this mod correct the issue shown in the video in the first post. My Ty has been doing this since I bought it. It will click once when I try to start it. It will usually do this two or three times and then fire up just fine. I haven't gotten around to messing with it yet because I've had higher priority things to fix on it and I wasn't sure what was causing it. I didn't really want to just start throwing parts at it in hopes something would fix it. If this could solve my issue then I may go ahead and try to fix it.

Yes, this is the correct mod. This is a very common issue on sy/ty's. I just did this to my Tylclone to resolve my clicking and not starting issue.
 

KyS10

Donating Member
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

Thanks for the diagram Dave. You read my mind. I was reading through your post trying to picture how everything was run.
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

This a favorite rant of mine. Various solutions to the purple wire "issue" have been posted over the years. Dave's solution is the correct method. Some use a Ford starter relay which is fine. The important thing is no mods to the starter itself are required and the wiring is done as shown.

I've never had any issues but I suppose my day is coming...:rotf:
 

Slyclone

Well-known member
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

I just watched the video, I have had issues in the past and thought this could be along them lines... My condition was the opposite. Turn key, sounds like something completely missed and a over spin.

My battery is a smaller AGM style, fully charged. Starter was bench tested and tested out OK. Inspected the flywheel and no missing teeth or chewed up looking metal. I even went the distance to get these starter shims and after doing a combination of a small one, a large one and two together nothing fixed the problem.

I seen the key turn, and click dead. I have never had that problem but one which sounded almost like there was too much power? or the gears were not meshing. I watched the starter bendix gear retract and so on.. teeth are fine, starter is shimmed. Still makes a worse noise a click. Only thing I have not done is get under the truck and watch the action happen but I dont not have a extra hand to do that any given sunday.

I did discover the Main power wire to starter is worn heavily, which is around the purple wire and I am still wondering if the exposed copper is causing the problem. Like a power leak or a draw..
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

I went out and measured the resistance of the Ford solenoid in my Super Duty. The coil is 2.4 Ohms. A cube relay on my shelf measures 88 Ohms.
Using an Ohms Law Calculator The Ford solenoid requires 5 Amps @ 12 V to "pull in". The cube relay requires .136 Amp to pull in.

5 Amps is a heck of lot more energy than 136 Milliamps. The idea of the purple wire mods is to minimize the 'amount' of energy needed to be passed through the circuit to 'pull in' the coil. The cube relay requires ~1/50th the amount of energy the Ford solenoid does. This is what makes the cube relay a 'better' solution than the Ford relay. A cube relay draws 1/50th the current through the purple wire that the Ford solenoid does.DaveP

Spot on as usual. The difference being because the Ford solenoid is designed to handle full starter current (100's of amps). Way overkill to run our starter solenoid. The cube relay is perfect for this app.
 

RealFastV6

@jb_and_his_coffee
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

I don't know about "correct", but the use of a cube relay over a Ford relay will be a better solution to overcome the actual deficiency that causes the clickies. Over time, the purple wire circuit develops resistance that causes a voltage drop to the point that the circuit can't carry sufficient current to pull-in the solenoid.

There are three components to Ohms Law in play here. Resistance, Voltage, and Current. Voltage will be a nominal 12V, but the lower it is, the higher the current. Resistance is also basically constant. The fact the circuit's resistance has increased over time is why the clickies develop. Amps is the amount of "work" required. The lower the Amp draw, the "better" the cure.

I went out and measured the resistance of the Ford solenoid in my Super Duty. The coil is 2.4 Ohms. A cube relay on my shelf measures 88 Ohms.
Using an Ohms Law Calculator The Ford solenoid requires 5 Amps @ 12 V to "pull in". The cube relay requires .136 Amp to pull in.

5 Amps is a heck of lot more energy than 136 Milliamps. The idea of the purple wire mods is to minimize the 'amount' of energy needed to be passed through the circuit to 'pull in' the coil. The cube relay requires ~1/50th the amount of energy the Ford solenoid does. This is what makes the cube relay a 'better' solution than the Ford relay. A cube relay draws 1/50th the current through the purple wire that the Ford solenoid does.




I had a thought on this too. I've owned several non-SyTy S-series, and I've never had to install a clickies relay in any of them. 2 of these truck have gone over 300K miles. So why do SyTy develop this malady, and regular S-series never do? Here's my thoughts:

A: There's an additional ~10 feet of wire in the SyTy because of the floor shifter and Neutral switch location. This adds resistance.
B: Regular S-Series don't have a P/N safety switch. This P/N function is achieved with mechanical lockout depending on column shifter position. The switch becomes increasingly more resistive with time in service.
C: Battery cable length. Because of the SyTy turbo and exhaust configuration, the battery cables are both almost 3X as long as they are in a regular S-series. This extra length increases resistance.


The key take-away is that there is a point where there's too much resistance in the purple wire circuit to pass the needed current (amps) to energize the solenoid coil. This resistance increases as the truck ages. When it reaches the magic point, clickies result. Reducing the amount of energy required, is what solves the clckies. The relay over the Ford Solenoid is 50 times more effective at achieving the desired result: No more clickies.

But both methods "work".

:2cents:
DaveP

A great "complete" explanation. Thanks for sharing. :tup:
 

Ruddell

Member
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

Information like this is priceless. This weird little SyTy issue is another example of how these vehicles are so precise. I applaud Dave for this explanation on the cure and reasoning on it.
 

SY2932

Administrator
Re: Thinking the purple wire is going bad?

Spot on as usual. The difference being because the Ford solenoid is designed to handle full starter current (100's of amps). Way overkill to run our starter solenoid. The cube relay is perfect for this app.

Yeah, I'm one of the Ford solenoid guys :lol:. I knew that I was swatting a fly with a sledgehammer when I did it. As Don mentioned, it is designed to handle WAY more current than the starter solenoid needs to function. I did my mod ten years ago and it still works great, started my truck up yesterday in fact. I'm still using the *same* starter than came on my truck when I bought it almost 15 years ago.

Without a doubt, DaveP's cube relay is the best and cleanest way to address this issue :2cents:.
 
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