Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

[Nanosec]

I have a 93 Ty that I am trying to get running after sitting for 17 months on blocks in storage with 1/4 tank of gas. Siphoned out the old and put in 5 gallons of 93 in it. I had started to do a full tune up on it back then but had to put it in storage due to leaving the state for work.

I have replaced wires with the AC stockers, plugs with CR42TS gapped at .35, fuel filter, pcv valves (boost & vacuum), Conrad cap & rotor. Double checked all silicone vacuum lines, elbows & check valves for visible problems.

The distributor was out the whole time and I didn't mark the position of the rotor. Not a big deal I thought since it was 180? off when I bought it (learned this by having to move the wires 3 notches on the distributor to fire up on the first tuneup, correct placement it wouldn't start).

Now I have read a bit on how to find TDC but want to make sure I get the idea.
1. Find the compression stroke on #1. Place a balled up paper towel by the hole, hand crank it over until the paper blows out.
2. Put a piston stop, wooden dowel in the #1 hole and hand crank it till it hits
3. Reverse crank it till it hits again
4. Crank forward till it's in the middle, this should be close to TDC.
5. Put the distributor in and see if the rotor is pointing towards #1

Put the plug back in, connect the wires and verify they are each going to the right peg on the distributor. I am using this diagram for reference.

See if I can start it up, and then if running try to set timing. Disconnect brown wire, and use timing light to bring to 0deg.

Sooooo is that about right?

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

a couple of things...

1) if you use that paper towl trick you mention, you'll blow air with the compression and exhaust stroke as well...so i personally use my finger where I can feel more air on the compression stroke.

2) there is two timing marks on the balancer...use the one furthest to the left when looking down at it in front of the truck. you may want to put a white paint mark on it so you always know...is easier to see when using timing light as well.

3) you may need to get a long flathead screwdriver to turn the oilpump shaft so it will line up with the inner shaft of the dissy (don't know real name).

4) Its sort of a pain in the ass but keep tinkering with it and you'll get it...once it starts, then you can adjust the timing.

if you get lost come back and post.

 

[vortecfiero]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

i usually pop off the valve cover...
as i turn the crank i watch for the intake valve to open on No.1 . as the mark comes around you will know its the compression stroke and at tdc when he mark lines up with the pointer

if you want to check the accuracy of your marks there are some cheap piston stops available that screw in to the plug hole and adjust similarly to the machine shop type

 

[Nullkalt]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

a couple of things...


2) there is two timing marks on the balancer...use the one furthest to the right when looking down at it in front of the truck. you may want to put a white paint mark on it so you always know...is easier to see when using timing light as well..

Furthest to the right? I thought it was the one furthest on the left from the front.

This guy had some problems with the notch on the right.


I would say use the one on the left, anyone wanna chime in?

 

[Nanosec]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

Found the compression stroke on #1 and backed it off a bit, looked down at the left marker on the balancer and it was less than 1/8 of an inch from the 0 marker tab. Put the distributor in but it wouldn't slide in pointing to #1. Rotated the slot a bit with a long flat blade as mentioned above. Double checked the plugs, wires and their relation to the distributor. Tried to start and nothing, just cranks over.

Tested spark by putting an old spark plug with the ground tab off in the #1 plug wire, set it 1/4 inch from the block and saw good steady spark when cranking. The #1 plug was wet when I took it off. Don't have a fuel pressure gauge, but the schrader valve let out a good pressure of fuel when pressed in. The walbro only has about 10k miles on it.


I have Datamaster and the data cable w/ lighter plug, and it connects to the ALDL fine but not the PCM. Will that only happen after the truck is started?

I'm a bit lost on where to go from here, any help or suggestions would be great.

Thanks

 

[vortecfiero]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

i had a similar problem when i started my engine for the first time..
I ended up cracking open the throttle body a touch and she roared in to life
I guess my Iac lost its ref point for idle and may have been closed

craig

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

Found the compression stroke on #1 and backed it off a bit, looked down at the left marker on the balancer and it was less than 1/8 of an inch from the 0 marker tab. Put the distributor in but it wouldn't slide in pointing to #1. Rotated the slot a bit with a long flat blade as mentioned above. Double checked the plugs, wires and their relation to the distributor. Tried to start and nothing, just cranks over.

Tested spark by putting an old spark plug with the ground tab off in the #1 plug wire, set it 1/4 inch from the block and saw good steady spark when cranking. The #1 plug was wet when I took it off. Don't have a fuel pressure gauge, but the schrader valve let out a good pressure of fuel when pressed in. The walbro only has about 10k miles on it.


I have Datamaster and the data cable w/ lighter plug, and it connects to the ALDL fine but not the PCM. Will that only happen after the truck is started?

I'm a bit lost on where to go from here, any help or suggestions would be great.

Thanks

I'm sorry I met left, not right. I don't know why I thought that. I have peronslly done it 20+ times, i brain farted.

 

[Nanosec]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

i had a similar problem when i started my engine for the first time..
I ended up cracking open the throttle body a touch and she roared in to life
I guess my Iac lost its ref point for idle and may have been closed

craig

I have the IC disconnected from the throttle body and off to the side. Still no start. I'm gonna do some research on the IAC and see what I can do there.

The engine just cranks over, doesn't even sound like there is any detonation, like it's just cranking and not even trying to start. The only thing I can think is that I still don't have the distributor/tdc/timing correct. Checked the cap & rotor, plugs & wires and there is no damage anywhere & the plug wires hooked up correct.

As far as DM able to connect to the ALDL but not being able to connect to the PCM, is that because the truck is not started, or perhaps I have other problems. :dunno:

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

I have the IC disconnected from the throttle body and off to the side. Still no start. I'm gonna do some research on the IAC and see what I can do there.

The engine just cranks over, doesn't even sound like there is any detonation, like it's just cranking and not even trying to start. The only thing I can think is that I still don't have the distributor/tdc/timing correct. Checked the cap & rotor, plugs & wires and there is no damage anywhere & the plug wires hooked up correct.

As far as DM able to connect to the ALDL but not being able to connect to the PCM, is that because the truck is not started, or perhaps I have other problems. :dunno:

Your timing may be 180* off...that is possible...i'll dig up some threads and post them for you to look at...i dealt with this and is how i learned from it.

edit: here ya go read some of these.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24419&highlight=timing

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25677&highlight=timing

 

[Nanosec]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

Your timing may be 180* off...that is possible...i'll dig up some threads and post them for you to look at...i dealt with this and is how i learned from it.

I stated above

the distributor was out the whole time and I didn't mark the position of the rotor. Not a big deal I thought since it was 180? off when I bought it (learned this by having to move the wires 3 notches on the distributor to fire up on the first tuneup, correct placement it wouldn't start).

So wouldn't following all the steps I listed above resolve the 180 off problem? Thank you for the links, I'm gonna go through them closely and see if I can find anything else.

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

I stated above



So wouldn't following all the steps I listed above resolve the 180 off problem? Thank you for the links, I'm gonna go through them closely and see if I can find anything else.

i guess i'm a bit confused or not reading something correctly...you state "crank" forward, backwards, then forward again in steps 1-3. Just find the compression stroke and put a scewdriver in #1 and crank till it hits...pull screwdriver out and look at your timing mark, it should be close and you'll need to crank a bit more to line it up.

 

[Nanosec]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

i guess i'm a bit confused or not reading something correctly...you state "crank" forward, backwards, then forward again in steps 1-3. Just find the compression stroke and put a scewdriver in #1 and crank till it hits...pull screwdriver out and look at your timing mark, it should be close and you'll need to crank a bit more to line it up.

I followed the steps that this post outlined.

All you need is the piston stop. Just pull the plugs, insert piston stop into #1, connect a ratchet and allen socket to your alternator pulley, turn engine clockwise until it stops, mark balancer with silver paint pen (carefully and accurately), turn motor the other direction until hits piston stop again, mark balancer 2nd time; middle of the two marks is true TDC. Do this a few times and recheck the mark to be sure. I verified mine again last weekend and by some miracle the notch on the balancer is still precisely at TDC Good luck, any questions ask away.

If this is in fact NOT the way to find TDC, then perhaps that might be my problem, but I have seen that method on other sites as well.

 

[RwD*eaT3r]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

Have you checked to to make sure the two plug in connections on th back of the distibutor were securely in place, mine did the same thing just cranked but no start till I remembered that I had forgot to plug in one of those connections. Fired right up afterwards, hope this helps you.

 

[93ty475]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

here's something that might help you guys click your starter while under the hood..I put this together one day out of frustration of being on my own when I needed to click the starter....You simply tap the "purple" and "red" wires in the big harness that runs over the brake booster....put a push button type switch in between....I've mainly used it to adjust lifters, but I suppose it could help when doing TDC hunting.....works like a charm....I made mine extra long and just stuff it down the fender when not in use.....

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

i usually pop off the valve cover...
as i turn the crank i watch for the intake valve to open on No.1 . as the mark comes around you will know its the compression stroke and at tdc when he mark lines up with the pointer

if you want to check the accuracy of your marks there are some cheap piston stops available that screw in to the plug hole and adjust similarly to the machine shop type

I turned the crank with a button starter until the #1 intake valve opened and then closed afterwords I stopped on TDC marked on the crank pulley. Is this correct???

 

[Sy+Ty]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

I turned the crank with a button starter until the #1 intake valve opened and then closed afterwords I stopped on TDC marked on the crank pulley. Is this correct???

S/b, IF you already verified your TDC mark is true TDC. I think you have a piston stop, so wouldn't be a bad idea to double-check TDC using the "middle of the 2 marks" method described above. And by "crank pulley," I assume you meant balancer(?)

Sy+Ty

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: Tuning question - Distributor, TDC, Timing - HELP

S/b, IF you already verified your TDC mark is true TDC. I think you have a piston stop, so wouldn't be a bad idea to double-check TDC using the "middle of the 2 marks" method described above. And by "crank pulley," I assume you meant balancer(?)

Sy+Ty

TDC is true, just trying to figure a way to set it before I stab the distributor again without having to remove the #1 plug. ATR headers make this a very difficult task