turbo question

[chrisstewart]

I will start off by saying i have searched and searched but could not find exactly what I am looking for. I will also state that I am pretty stupid when it comes to turbos. With that being said I will give you what I am looking for and what I am hoping to accomplish. To start off I have a competion Rock Buggy Crawler/Racer. I need to do something to keep up a little better with the Gen III and IV motors. 97 vortec 4.3 arp headstuds and gaskets th350 rmvb 700r4, 1st gear, with a 2400 stall converter, it is also propane injected. I picked up a set of SY/TY exhaust manifolds from sportmachines here on the board. I am going to pick up a stock turbo from him as well. From all the research I have done I think the stock wastegate is set for 14 or 15psi, but I am not sure. Since my motor is a regular vortec 4.3 I only want to run 8-10 psi. Now with this being said using the stock turbo what will be the easiest way to get this turbo to work, and for me to control boost. I know they have boost controllers out there, but I didn't know if I could just do a plug and play senario, or if it's more in depth. I also know that the turbo is oil/water cooled, so is there a possible way to get the water in there without running a SY/TY intercooler? I just flat out don't have the room. Sorry if the post is random and all over the place, and I am not looking to have the answers handed to me, just pointed in the right direction. Last but not least I know the motor won't last long, with a turbo, but I am hoping for at least a couple races.

thanks chris

 

[Black Knight]

Re: turbo question

I'll help with I can.

The water to cool the turbo come from and returns to the block and is the same coolant that goes through the motor and radiator, not the intercooler.

From what my understanding is, the stock wastegate only allows 15PSI because the stock 2 bar MAP sensor can only handle up to that, you would need a 3 bar to go higher. The wastegate wont change. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but the ECM controls the boost level unless you bypass with an aftermarket boost controller.

Others have run 15PSI on the Vortec motor, I think Eric at Turbo Time was the one doing this with good luck, maybe he can provide you with more insight.

The motor with last 100K if you monitor it properly and take care of it, not monitoring and taking appropriate steps may not get you even one run.

If you have more specific questions post them up.

HTH

 

[5678TA]

Re: turbo question

first off, hit the New Members section. but anyway, on a syty turbo, if you just hook the wastegate hose to the turbo pressure port, it "should" only run 8-10 psi MAX. if you do the wastegate unshrouding, you can actually be closer to 6 psi depending on how freeflowing the exhaust is... from there, run a boost controller and you can have your desired boost levels. the factory black module with the vacuum lines hooked to it is a boost controller that slows the wastegate opening.

search JSM downpipe for the general idea of what i'm talking about. you can basically cutout from the existing turbine outlet (the 2.5" exhaust outlet on the turbo) to the portion with a plug welded to it. that makes the wastegate MUCH more effective. as far as turbo coolant, its plumbed from the bottom of the block, on the passenger side and returns to the front of the block right above the timing cover. or vise versa, not sure which way is pressure and return.

you don't need a syty intercooler for anything more than a boost chiller. if you are tuned well enough, you don't need an intercooler. but it definitely helps if you want to make good, reliable power.



on a more practical note, you don't need to run water through the turbo if you are careful with shutdown procedures(let it idle for at least 30 seconds before turning it off). remember, any sort of engine speed is lubrication for a turbo that can spin at over 100,000 rpm. letting the engine idle before shutoff allows the turbo to slow to its lowest rpm and prevents excessive spinning without lubrication.

 

[chrisstewart]

Re: turbo question

Thanks for the replies. I have a a2a intercooler and until I just recently searched I didn't know syty's came with a liquid to air. I think I might have a basic enough grasp go get the ball rolling. Thanks again but any other info pertaining to this would still be welcomed and appreciated.

 

[sy538]

Re: turbo question

I would imagine that a turbo engine would be less then ideal for a rock crawler because of the way the powerband is.

I've never heard of a gas motor that was propane injected, will this take care of your intercooling needs?

Stock sytys run about 15 lbs, but that's in the chip. Disconnect the boost control solenoid, or not have one like mentioned above, and the truck will try to run about 8-10 lbs iirc. I say try because if you don't have a restrictive exhaust then it won't be able to unless you have a JSM style downpipe, and if you are not tied to routing the dp the way we are that would be the obvoius thing to do. I assume you will not be running a cat, that will make doing something to make the wastegate flow more a requirement.

You don't have to run water to the turbo, many people have skipped it and many aftermarket turbos don't even have the place for it.

The important thing is to let the turbo cool off as much as you can before shutting off the engine. The turbo won't cook oil that is flowing through it, but it can cook oil that stops in it when the engine stops and the oil stops flowing if the turbo is still too hot. Just driving around not making boost I wouldn't worry at all about just turning the engine off, but after any full throttle at all, I give my truck at least 10 minutes and it is water cooled.

My exhaust manifolds and exhaust housing will glow slightly after 2-3 seconds of full throttle. Can only be seen at night.

 

[chrisstewart]

Re: turbo question

I would imagine that a turbo engine would be less then ideal for a rock crawler because of the way the powerband is.

I've never heard of a gas motor that was propane injected, will this take care of your intercooling needs?

Stock sytys run about 15 lbs, but that's in the chip. Disconnect the boost control solenoid, or not have one like mentioned above, and the truck will try to run about 8-10 lbs iirc. I say try because if you don't have a restrictive exhaust then it won't be able to unless you have a JSM style downpipe, and if you are not tied to routing the dp the way we are that would be the obvoius thing to do. I assume you will not be running a cat, that will make doing something to make the wastegate flow more a requirement.

You don't have to run water to the turbo, many people have skipped it and many aftermarket turbos don't even have the place for it.

The important thing is to let the turbo cool off as much as you can before shutting off the engine. The turbo won't cook oil that is flowing through it, but it can cook oil that stops in it when the engine stops and the oil stops flowing if the turbo is still too hot. Just driving around not making boost I wouldn't worry at all about just turning the engine off, but after any full throttle at all, I give my truck at least 10 minutes and it is water cooled.

My exhaust manifolds and exhaust housing will glow slightly after 2-3 seconds of full throttle. Can only be seen at night.

Depending on where exactly this turbo makes its power through the rpm range I think it will be perfect. I have read that these turbos work the best at mid to high range. With that being said, when my converter locks up at 2400 rpms, with the turbo spooling I should get a pretty good launch up any rock face. I will sacrifice a little for crawling, as long as it gets up on it's feet through the desert. The vortec motor isn't naturally propane injected. I stripped all the fuel injection off the motor and put an edelbrock intake and propane conversion on it for a couple reasons. Propane is higher octane then any pump gas, eliminates the need for a ecu and wiring harness. It's a basic 3 wire hook up, last but not least it will run upside down without stalling, or run until the motor loses all oil pressure and seizes up. Using the turbo setup and propane I won't have to worry about upgrading my fuel system at all. Check out Gotpropane.com if it's still fuzzy. I understand the basics of turbos, letting them cool and all that, I am going to straight pipe it 3" back from the turbo. It's nice to know that I don't have to run water through it. I will just use the same practices I do on my diesel and drive off the egt gauge. Thanks again for the reply.

 

[sy538]

Re: turbo question

Just curious, is this a s10 with a lift kit and big tires, tube chassis buggie or something else?

Depending on where exactly this turbo makes its power through the rpm range I think it will be perfect. I have read that these turbos work the best at mid to high range. With that being said, when my converter locks up at 2400 rpms, with the turbo spooling I should get a pretty good launch up any rock face.
...

Yeah a 2400 stall should work great.

...
The vortec motor isn't naturally propane injected. I stripped all the fuel injection off the motor and put an edelbrock intake and propane conversion on it for a couple reasons. Propane is higher octane then any pump gas, eliminates the need for a ecu and wiring harness. It's a basic 3 wire hook up, last but not least it will run upside down without stalling, or run until the motor loses all oil pressure and seizes up. Using the turbo setup and propane I won't have to worry about upgrading my fuel system at all. Check out Gotpropane.com if it's still fuzzy.
...

Yeah I knew it wasn't stock, but I was thinking you were running propane on top
of gas. I've heard of propane injection on a diesel, but never gas and couldn't figure it out.

...
I understand the basics of turbos, letting them cool and all that, I am going to straight pipe it 3" back from the turbo. It's nice to know that I don't have to run water through it. I will just use the same practices I do on my diesel and drive off the egt gauge. Thanks again for the reply.

Then this will be a required mod to your turbo to run less then 15 or so lbs of boost.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showpost.php?p=792354&postcount=8

 

[chrisstewart]

Re: turbo question

Just curious, is this a s10 with a lift kit and big tires, tube chassis buggie or something else?




http://www.syty.net/forums/showpost.php?p=792354&postcount=8

Sorry for the delay, full tube competition buggy. Well I picked up a ported exhaust housing, and a turbo. I am in the process of making my exhaust flange, to run my exhaust. I am sitting on the fence about a couple EBC's but I think for the money I am leaning toward the AEM tru boost. The only thing I haven't quite figured out (Haven't researched it yet) is how people are getting 3" off of the exhaust flange. There just doesn't seem to be enough material to go bigger then 2.5" I will probably end up welding a piece of 2.5" right on the flange, and then right away up size it to 3" and start my down pipe. I guess I should search a little first, to be sure this is what I want to do.

 

[chrisstewart]

Re: turbo question

Sorry for the delay, full tube competition buggy. Well I picked up a ported exhaust housing, and a turbo. I am in the process of making my exhaust flange, to run my exhaust. I am sitting on the fence about a couple EBC's but I think for the money I am leaning toward the AEM tru boost. The only thing I haven't quite figured out (Haven't researched it yet) is how people are getting 3" off of the exhaust flange. There just doesn't seem to be enough material to go bigger then 2.5" I will probably end up welding a piece of 2.5" right on the flange, and then right away up size it to 3" and start my down pipe. I guess I should search a little first, to be sure this is what I want to do.

Look at that, first thing I have researched on turbos that hasn't taken me hours. Pretty easy to get the 3" to fit.

 

[chrisstewart]

Re: turbo question

Well it's been over a year, but I got the complete running and dialed. I have the mbc set at 12, timing had to be locked at 36 degrees at 3k , for the propane, I have an msd boost box to retard timing but haven't used it yet. This thing flat out moves, You syty guys have to have special powers to keep your foot out of it. Here is a video from early tuning, and I'm not looking at the camera I'm checking my wideband. One question I do have, is what are people running for egt's with stock turbo, manifold.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=F_URpOTcrmw

 

[cheatham2492]

Re: turbo question

Well it's been over a year, but I got the complete running and dialed. I have the mbc set at 12, timing had to be locked at 36 degrees at 3k , for the propane, I have an msd boost box to retard timing but haven't used it yet. This thing flat out moves, You syty guys have to have special powers to keep your foot out of it. Here is a video from early tuning, and I'm not looking at the camera I'm checking my wideband. One question I do have, is what are people running for egt's with stock turbo, manifold.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=F_URpOTcrmw

You should look for 1400 peak before turbo and 1200 after the turbo. valves melt @ "Before turbo" 1600F.
Cheatie

 

[chrisstewart]

Re: turbo question

Yeah with my foot in it I have only got it to 1310. I am just used to my diesel so I wanted to check because that seemed kind of high. I talked to a couple import guys and they said the same thing.

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: turbo question

Well it's been over a year, but I got the complete running and dialed. I have the mbc set at 12, timing had to be locked at 36 degrees at 3k , for the propane, I have an msd boost box to retard timing but haven't used it yet. This thing flat out moves, You syty guys have to have special powers to keep your foot out of it. Here is a video from early tuning, and I'm not looking at the camera I'm checking my wideband. One question I do have, is what are people running for egt's with stock turbo, manifold.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=F_URpOTcrmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=F_URpOTcrmw

:tup: