well.. i blew the tranny again
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nfmRc8q
pis ta mere elle?
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
today I was trying to move the truck from my parking for winter storage(tranny still broken) and it doesn't shit out of park, reverse isn't working and when I shift to neutral and try to push it out(no room to go forward) i can't because the "park pin" feels engaged or something. my guess is that when the tranny blew it got pretty hot and melted metal pieces just soldered together or something and now it is sitting outside at 0*C (32*F). Is there any other way to move it out except removing both drive shafts?
today I was trying to move the truck from my parking for winter storage(tranny still broken) and it doesn't shit out of park, reverse isn't working and when I shift to neutral and try to push it out(no room to go forward) i can't because the "park pin" feels engaged or something. my guess is that when the tranny blew it got pretty hot and melted metal pieces just soldered together or something and now it is sitting outside at 0*C (32*F). Is there any other way to move it out except removing both drive shafts?
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
You've broken the rear planetary (probably more) and it's now bound and won't move. I doubt if you welded anything unless it ran without lube and melted the front sun gear in. If you've done that, might as well pull the valvebody, governor, servo lineup and throw the rest away. 3 breaks in a couple months. Th400 or 80e is the only thing that's gonna live the way your drive it.
Remove the rear driveshaft. You'll be fighting the viscous if the trans won't rotate, so you'll have to drop the front propshaft as well.
You've broken the rear planetary (probably more) and it's now bound and won't move. I doubt if you welded anything unless it ran without lube and melted the front sun gear in. If you've done that, might as well pull the valvebody, governor, servo lineup and throw the rest away. 3 breaks in a couple months. Th400 or 80e is the only thing that's gonna live the way your drive it.
Remove the rear driveshaft. You'll be fighting the viscous if the trans won't rotate, so you'll have to drop the front propshaft as well.
nfmRc8q
pis ta mere elle?
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
I'm still on the second break.. didn't repair it yet. The tranny is still full of fluid so maybe nothing has welded. I will not go TH400 since this truck is my daily driver and I do alot of street/highway driving. I tought about this lemme know what you think. I have a 4L60e from a 07' trailblazer ss, I'll throw the more parts I can from it into the 700r4, add a deep pan, a big ass cooler w/ electric fan, tranny temp gauge to monitor it's temperature, ditch the big piston for a normal corvette one, ditch the transgo 2-3 kit, and add a shift kit (AND TRY NOT DRIVING IT LIKE I JUST STOLE IT) ..and if this doesn't work.. I'll go 80e cause for now I don't have 5000$ laying around right now. Lemme know what you think.
I'm still on the second break.. didn't repair it yet. The tranny is still full of fluid so maybe nothing has welded. I will not go TH400 since this truck is my daily driver and I do alot of street/highway driving. I tought about this lemme know what you think. I have a 4L60e from a 07' trailblazer ss, I'll throw the more parts I can from it into the 700r4, add a deep pan, a big ass cooler w/ electric fan, tranny temp gauge to monitor it's temperature, ditch the big piston for a normal corvette one, ditch the transgo 2-3 kit, and add a shift kit (AND TRY NOT DRIVING IT LIKE I JUST STOLE IT) ..and if this doesn't work.. I'll go 80e cause for now I don't have 5000$ laying around right now. Lemme know what you think.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
The input drum and everything associated with the input drum is different in the 2007. Read the following and see if it appeals more.
Don't use any pieces out of the 700r you've broken except the servo. They will be bent, cracked, heat warped, don't use it.
Fluid in it doesn't mean the front sun gear didn't get welded in place. I looked up the info on that trans. It was a basic build with a reinforced input drum and overrun clutch hub with a transgo 2-3 shift kit and corvette servo. Nothing special. Not sure why you thought you could bracket race a 700r4 with minimal upgrades.
You can go 4L60e. Don't throw tons of parts at it or you'll get false confidence and break it too. 60e has the EXACT same geartrain as the 700. Just with electronic controls. You'll need an early version with a 4 bolt tail end and a built in bellhousing. You syty adaptors would bolt right up to it then. NEW converter. You cannot use a 700r4 converter on a 60e. The clutch material is different. You'll need a controller. Get the Transgo 60e kit. Its a VERY nice kit. The corvette servo you can pull out of your current trans and use it. If you want to use that 2007 trans, call up advanced adaptors, tell them what your doing and see if they still make the kit to fit that app.
Check the AFL valve in the 60e you get and ohm all the electronics so you don't have to troubleshoot those. If you pull it apart and really check it good, you'll see that 90% of everything is the same. When you do this, put a REALLY large 12x12 cooler with an electric fan on it with a thermal sensor. This way, when the trans is hot and your sitting at a light, the fan can cool it. Your not gonna be nice to it.
Don't use a WIDE band on the front drum. Use the stock band unless it needs replaced and if it does use the raybestos high energy band. Very good material and they don't break. NO KEVLAR on the band!!! You can use a beast shell. The Z-Pak works really well in the 3-4. Use BW high energy for the rest. No blues, reds, just BW high energy.
I do the controllers if you need one you can do the wizard setup and it will get you 90% of the way there.
Again, that geartrain was not meant for what you were doing to it. I've built them to tolerate it but it is VERY VERY expensive and in the end you still have a little bitty sprag, and tiny planetarys and an itty bitty tube transfering TONs of torque through aluminum parts. NOT a recipe for racing.
Here's the adaptor you'll need:
http://advanceadapters.com/product/2322/(P/N-50-0405)-GM-4L60E-6-to-4-bolt-Converter-Plate.html
I believe sparkwire on here was using this. Give him a shot as he went 4L80e and may have this setup available now.
I edited this to try to put as much info in it as I could.
The input drum and everything associated with the input drum is different in the 2007. Read the following and see if it appeals more.
Don't use any pieces out of the 700r you've broken except the servo. They will be bent, cracked, heat warped, don't use it.
Fluid in it doesn't mean the front sun gear didn't get welded in place. I looked up the info on that trans. It was a basic build with a reinforced input drum and overrun clutch hub with a transgo 2-3 shift kit and corvette servo. Nothing special. Not sure why you thought you could bracket race a 700r4 with minimal upgrades.
You can go 4L60e. Don't throw tons of parts at it or you'll get false confidence and break it too. 60e has the EXACT same geartrain as the 700. Just with electronic controls. You'll need an early version with a 4 bolt tail end and a built in bellhousing. You syty adaptors would bolt right up to it then. NEW converter. You cannot use a 700r4 converter on a 60e. The clutch material is different. You'll need a controller. Get the Transgo 60e kit. Its a VERY nice kit. The corvette servo you can pull out of your current trans and use it. If you want to use that 2007 trans, call up advanced adaptors, tell them what your doing and see if they still make the kit to fit that app.
Check the AFL valve in the 60e you get and ohm all the electronics so you don't have to troubleshoot those. If you pull it apart and really check it good, you'll see that 90% of everything is the same. When you do this, put a REALLY large 12x12 cooler with an electric fan on it with a thermal sensor. This way, when the trans is hot and your sitting at a light, the fan can cool it. Your not gonna be nice to it.
Don't use a WIDE band on the front drum. Use the stock band unless it needs replaced and if it does use the raybestos high energy band. Very good material and they don't break. NO KEVLAR on the band!!! You can use a beast shell. The Z-Pak works really well in the 3-4. Use BW high energy for the rest. No blues, reds, just BW high energy.
I do the controllers if you need one you can do the wizard setup and it will get you 90% of the way there.
Again, that geartrain was not meant for what you were doing to it. I've built them to tolerate it but it is VERY VERY expensive and in the end you still have a little bitty sprag, and tiny planetarys and an itty bitty tube transfering TONs of torque through aluminum parts. NOT a recipe for racing.
Here's the adaptor you'll need:
http://advanceadapters.com/product/2322/(P/N-50-0405)-GM-4L60E-6-to-4-bolt-Converter-Plate.html
I believe sparkwire on here was using this. Give him a shot as he went 4L80e and may have this setup available now.
I edited this to try to put as much info in it as I could.
Last edited:
nfmRc8q
pis ta mere elle?
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
I think you misundertanded me..sorry if my english isn't very good. I meant to throw every part of the 07' 4L60e (all mechanical parts) into the 700r4, I'll keep the reinforced sprag if it isn't broke and every reinforced parts that is in it. I'll buy a new torque converter for the 700r4 maybe with a higher stall or somthing tougher.. ill use a larger than 12X12 cooler (something like what snowplow pickups uses about 30 000btu++) with big electric fan and a thermal sensor like you said. Deeper pan to use more oil with the temp sensor drilled trough the side of the pan.I'll also throw a shift kit in. I think that the big piston on the side of the 700r4 isn't right for street driving cause it shifts VERY HARD at low rpm's. I'll do a complete rebluit. Also can you tell me why not to use a large band? I already ordered one (larger and ventilated, not sure if it's for the front one) thinking it is gonna help a bit, along with a set of thinner and tougher clutches so I can put more of em in it? If I can keep the 700r4 cold enough and drop my runs go from 10-20per night twice a week to about 5 to 8 once a week.. and ditch the top speed runs against bikes with all the upgrades mentioned earlier will I be able to keep it alive for a while?.. until I get $$ for the 80e. :rant:
I think you misundertanded me..sorry if my english isn't very good. I meant to throw every part of the 07' 4L60e (all mechanical parts) into the 700r4, I'll keep the reinforced sprag if it isn't broke and every reinforced parts that is in it. I'll buy a new torque converter for the 700r4 maybe with a higher stall or somthing tougher.. ill use a larger than 12X12 cooler (something like what snowplow pickups uses about 30 000btu++) with big electric fan and a thermal sensor like you said. Deeper pan to use more oil with the temp sensor drilled trough the side of the pan.I'll also throw a shift kit in. I think that the big piston on the side of the 700r4 isn't right for street driving cause it shifts VERY HARD at low rpm's. I'll do a complete rebluit. Also can you tell me why not to use a large band? I already ordered one (larger and ventilated, not sure if it's for the front one) thinking it is gonna help a bit, along with a set of thinner and tougher clutches so I can put more of em in it? If I can keep the 700r4 cold enough and drop my runs go from 10-20per night twice a week to about 5 to 8 once a week.. and ditch the top speed runs against bikes with all the upgrades mentioned earlier will I be able to keep it alive for a while?.. until I get $$ for the 80e. :rant:
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
You've already bought the stuff. Not sure why you asked. You'd be MUCH better off just using the 2007 trans with the adaptor and controller. If your trans is seized, it's done. I mean, not rebuildable done. The sun gear is pressed into the sprag. If it's melted, it's all done. You should NOT be doing any bracket racing with the 700. The WAY it shifts will make it break AGAIN. The shifting hard at low rpm means something is either wrong with the TV cable or the throttle valve in the valebody was stuck. NOT good for a 700. The money your spending on THIN clutches and WIDE bands that your gonna burn up would've been better spent on the adaptor and controller and I gave you a guy that already had that setup that you could probably get it off of cheaper. But you've already bought the parts.......
If you go to a controller type setup, you can eliminate all of that hard shifting stuff at low TPS.
If the 2007 trans is good, take it, get the adaptor and controller and go with it. Drive it normally with occasional boost launches. Your only kidding yourself if you think your gonna limit yourself to 5 to 8 races a night on the weekends. Remember me saying that most count the runs before a teardown on their hands? That means your pushing it if you get 30 bracket racing runs. And you were probably doing some manual shifting as well. We know. We've done it. Then you learn not to do that stuff.
I just had all of my stock of 80e components on sale for less than cost to clear out inventory and you didn't get any of it. I bet you paid more for the 700r4 parts you got than the 80e components I just cleared out.
Input drum from a 2007 will NOT work in a 1991 trans. Good luck!
You've already bought the stuff. Not sure why you asked. You'd be MUCH better off just using the 2007 trans with the adaptor and controller. If your trans is seized, it's done. I mean, not rebuildable done. The sun gear is pressed into the sprag. If it's melted, it's all done. You should NOT be doing any bracket racing with the 700. The WAY it shifts will make it break AGAIN. The shifting hard at low rpm means something is either wrong with the TV cable or the throttle valve in the valebody was stuck. NOT good for a 700. The money your spending on THIN clutches and WIDE bands that your gonna burn up would've been better spent on the adaptor and controller and I gave you a guy that already had that setup that you could probably get it off of cheaper. But you've already bought the parts.......
If you go to a controller type setup, you can eliminate all of that hard shifting stuff at low TPS.
If the 2007 trans is good, take it, get the adaptor and controller and go with it. Drive it normally with occasional boost launches. Your only kidding yourself if you think your gonna limit yourself to 5 to 8 races a night on the weekends. Remember me saying that most count the runs before a teardown on their hands? That means your pushing it if you get 30 bracket racing runs. And you were probably doing some manual shifting as well. We know. We've done it. Then you learn not to do that stuff.
I just had all of my stock of 80e components on sale for less than cost to clear out inventory and you didn't get any of it. I bet you paid more for the 700r4 parts you got than the 80e components I just cleared out.
Input drum from a 2007 will NOT work in a 1991 trans. Good luck!
nfmRc8q
pis ta mere elle?
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
My purchase for the band and clutches are done but it's backorder untill february so I can still cancel my order.. I asked cause I wanted to know why, sry. Instead of rebuilding this time, I'll wait for $$ and go 80e. Thank you for your time George. *edit: and the 07' 4l60e is from a friend at a GM dealership, it was free.
My purchase for the band and clutches are done but it's backorder untill february so I can still cancel my order.. I asked cause I wanted to know why, sry. Instead of rebuilding this time, I'll wait for $$ and go 80e. Thank you for your time George. *edit: and the 07' 4l60e is from a friend at a GM dealership, it was free.
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George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
Go with the 2007. It's free. You can always REUSE the controller if you go 80e. And you'll get back on the road quicker. Do some measuring and see how close it would be. Ask Rodger (sparkwire) and see what all he's got. Especially if the freebie has a converter already. If he's still got everything, you may get a package deal, stick the 2007 in and drive away.
The 80e stuff that I was clearing out is all gone now. I thought you would've jumped all over it with the racing you do.
Go with the 2007. It's free. You can always REUSE the controller if you go 80e. And you'll get back on the road quicker. Do some measuring and see how close it would be. Ask Rodger (sparkwire) and see what all he's got. Especially if the freebie has a converter already. If he's still got everything, you may get a package deal, stick the 2007 in and drive away.
The 80e stuff that I was clearing out is all gone now. I thought you would've jumped all over it with the racing you do.
nfmRc8q
pis ta mere elle?
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
The Sy will be stored for winter from now to april 1st. I'll sell the spare 700r4 that I have along with the 4L60e and wait till then and go 80e. You're right.. racing is basically why i bought this truck.. so that's the way I'll go.
The Sy will be stored for winter from now to april 1st. I'll sell the spare 700r4 that I have along with the 4L60e and wait till then and go 80e. You're right.. racing is basically why i bought this truck.. so that's the way I'll go.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
This stuff is all over the internet but I'll post it here.
Thin clutches for the 700r4 3-4 clutch pack. BAD. That is a DYNAMIC clutch. Remember?
Constanty cycling back and forth EVERY upshift and down shift. This creates lots of HEAT. The THIN clutches and steels do not disappate the heat from this bizzarre shift characteristic of the 700. The addtional clutch setup works in every other trans because they are STATIC clutches. Goes on, stays on. So a thin clutch in the 700 3-4 clutch pack, burns up nicely.
Wide band. This band has to stop and release about 75% of the trans internals on every 1-2,3-2,3-4, and 4-3. Sound rediculous? It is. This band has to apply AND let go. It's gonna grab quickly. Many of the bands either break off the apply ridge or rip out at the lug that goes through the case under the valvebody. Because of the greater surface area, they have even MORE opportunity to break. This band also must release. Take two pieces of glass, get them wet and stick them together. They don't want to come apart. That band hangs, burnt 3-4 clutches. So what did they do to correct the issue? Ventilate the band so it gets a "release" affect. What did you do to the surface area contact? Reduced it to the size of the regular band. This theory works great in practice on CLUTCHES not BANDS.
That trans came with a narrow high energy band (providing he left my trans in it). When I built that for him, he wanted to keep his original trans and I built him one from a core. Hopefully he didn't take mine out and put the original back in there when he sold it to you. Not saying he's crooked, it's just what guys do. When you use a WIDE band on a USED drum, the narrow band actually cuts into the drum a bit. So you'll get a burned wide band on the edges. Another reason not to use them. Then the have Kevlar. Kevlar sounds cool. Hard as a rock and doesn't hold for crap. But they last longer.
We've all been doing this stuff for a long time.
Your not doing anything new. What I'm really concerned about is that your gonna dump a ton of money in "band aid" fixes, street race the shit out of it. Break it again and say screw it, cover it up with a tarp and put it in the back of the garage.
If you drive this truck every day, put the 2007 in it, it's freaking FREE for God's sake, and drive it like you did NOT steal it. That's means occassional boost launches and NO manual shifting. Drive it back and forth to work on the highway with some full throttle romps every now and then. That's all the 700/60e geartrain can take. Any more than that and your looking at an 80e if you want OD or a Th400 for track. That's the only options you have for beating the snot out of it 30 time a weekend.
This stuff is all over the internet but I'll post it here.
Thin clutches for the 700r4 3-4 clutch pack. BAD. That is a DYNAMIC clutch. Remember?
Constanty cycling back and forth EVERY upshift and down shift. This creates lots of HEAT. The THIN clutches and steels do not disappate the heat from this bizzarre shift characteristic of the 700. The addtional clutch setup works in every other trans because they are STATIC clutches. Goes on, stays on. So a thin clutch in the 700 3-4 clutch pack, burns up nicely.
Wide band. This band has to stop and release about 75% of the trans internals on every 1-2,3-2,3-4, and 4-3. Sound rediculous? It is. This band has to apply AND let go. It's gonna grab quickly. Many of the bands either break off the apply ridge or rip out at the lug that goes through the case under the valvebody. Because of the greater surface area, they have even MORE opportunity to break. This band also must release. Take two pieces of glass, get them wet and stick them together. They don't want to come apart. That band hangs, burnt 3-4 clutches. So what did they do to correct the issue? Ventilate the band so it gets a "release" affect. What did you do to the surface area contact? Reduced it to the size of the regular band. This theory works great in practice on CLUTCHES not BANDS.
That trans came with a narrow high energy band (providing he left my trans in it). When I built that for him, he wanted to keep his original trans and I built him one from a core. Hopefully he didn't take mine out and put the original back in there when he sold it to you. Not saying he's crooked, it's just what guys do. When you use a WIDE band on a USED drum, the narrow band actually cuts into the drum a bit. So you'll get a burned wide band on the edges. Another reason not to use them. Then the have Kevlar. Kevlar sounds cool. Hard as a rock and doesn't hold for crap. But they last longer.
We've all been doing this stuff for a long time.
Your not doing anything new. What I'm really concerned about is that your gonna dump a ton of money in "band aid" fixes, street race the shit out of it. Break it again and say screw it, cover it up with a tarp and put it in the back of the garage.
If you drive this truck every day, put the 2007 in it, it's freaking FREE for God's sake, and drive it like you did NOT steal it. That's means occassional boost launches and NO manual shifting. Drive it back and forth to work on the highway with some full throttle romps every now and then. That's all the 700/60e geartrain can take. Any more than that and your looking at an 80e if you want OD or a Th400 for track. That's the only options you have for beating the snot out of it 30 time a weekend.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: well.. i blew the tranny again
Ok. It's killing me.
First you ADMITTED to racing 40 times(probably more) on the weekend every weekend AT THE TRACK.
Then you said you were doing highway racing with motorcylces at MAX speed for LONG durations of time.
How much are you actually making street racing? I mean for real. PM me. I gotta know. There is only one reason to race that much. You are either promoting a business or making money. If you are making money and you are racing at max speed on the highway, put a frigging roll cage and 5 point harness in it. Carry a fire extinguisher where you can get to it. Look at Ed Hess's truck. Excellent example.
Yes, I'm lecturing. You may die anyway at 130MPH if you blow out a tire, but you'll have a much better chance with a cage and a real harness. Just think about it. If you are exposing yourself to that much that often, take care of yourself. One guy on here even installed a under hood extinguishing system. So it can be done.
If you haven't upgraded to C5 brakes, for heaven's sake put them on it. The ABS module is known to be an issue. If it engages when you don't need it, you'll have big issues. Follow one of the ABS elimination threads if you have a bad ABS unit (they engage at low speeds when not needed and the pedal goes to the floor and you can't stop).
In the end it's your decision but if the vehicle is a racing machine, build it to protect you.
Ok. It's killing me.
First you ADMITTED to racing 40 times(probably more) on the weekend every weekend AT THE TRACK.
Then you said you were doing highway racing with motorcylces at MAX speed for LONG durations of time.
How much are you actually making street racing? I mean for real. PM me. I gotta know. There is only one reason to race that much. You are either promoting a business or making money. If you are making money and you are racing at max speed on the highway, put a frigging roll cage and 5 point harness in it. Carry a fire extinguisher where you can get to it. Look at Ed Hess's truck. Excellent example.
Yes, I'm lecturing. You may die anyway at 130MPH if you blow out a tire, but you'll have a much better chance with a cage and a real harness. Just think about it. If you are exposing yourself to that much that often, take care of yourself. One guy on here even installed a under hood extinguishing system. So it can be done.
If you haven't upgraded to C5 brakes, for heaven's sake put them on it. The ABS module is known to be an issue. If it engages when you don't need it, you'll have big issues. Follow one of the ABS elimination threads if you have a bad ABS unit (they engage at low speeds when not needed and the pedal goes to the floor and you can't stop).
In the end it's your decision but if the vehicle is a racing machine, build it to protect you.