Failed Emissions today, BAD!

NOWAY55

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Have your mechanic make SURE it the computer is going into closed loop. I had the same problem although with an aftermarket chip. 1st thought it was due to the 160 thermo. Had another chip burned and it was fine. Are you SURE it is a stock chip, and it's going into closed loop?
 

Jarnutt

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Well he figured out something that made some sense, It has clean emmisions under load and at idle, but high HC's on deceleration. He plugged the vacuum line on the EGR valve and it cleared up right away, so its looking like the EGR valve is getting stuck open for too long and causing the high hydrocarbons, Im off today to maybe fail the third time if they find out that the EGR vacuum line is plugged, but heres to hoping since I passed mechanical inspection once already they wont check again.

I Love the truck, but Im being realistic, I dont have the money for both. I cant be dropping money on Turbos, intercoolers, transmissions and whatever for two vehicles, I jus dont have that kind of money. It was a great truck when it was my daily driver but now with the truck my work bought me it just sits behind my shop 5 days out of the week until I am off for the weekend. Someone is going to get more use out of it than I am, and I would rather it didnt go to waste, its a geat truck.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

I didn't read everything, but most...knowone has told you to unplug the tan wire under the pass side...it'll run like shit, but it should pass with flying colors.
 

Jarnutt

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

OK, I passed today, but it was close. CO was 0.0 and HCs were 215, 220 would have failed. I didnt do anything to it but dump a gallon of Denatured Alcohol in the tank with about 5 gallons of 91. BUT, after that, the truck stumbles a bit more at idle and seems to miss at idle significantly. I drove around and got most of the gas out of the tank before topping it off again, now im thinking it may be a cap and rotor issue or a bad plug. It drives fine under load but knocks a little at WOT, and the motor gives me more shaking and missing at idle than it did before I dumped the alky in the tank. If its not one thing its another, tomorrow its getting cap rotor and plugs. Do i try to find UR6s or do I use trusty ol' CR43TS plugs?
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
OK, I passed today, but it was close. CO was 0.0 and HCs were 215, 220 would have failed. I didnt do anything to it but dump a gallon of Denatured Alcohol in the tank with about 5 gallons of 91. BUT, after that, the truck stumbles a bit more at idle and seems to miss at idle significantly. I drove around and got most of the gas out of the tank before topping it off again, now im thinking it may be a cap and rotor issue or a bad plug. It drives fine under load but knocks a little at WOT, and the motor gives me more shaking and missing at idle than it did before I dumped the alky in the tank. If its not one thing its another, tomorrow its getting cap rotor and plugs. Do i try to find UR6s or do I use trusty ol' CR43TS plugs?

if you got cr43ts plugs in there now that could be your problem...wrong plugs.

go with the NGK ur5's if your truck is mostly stock.
 

It's just a six

Super Member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
OK, I passed today, but it was close. CO was 0.0 and HCs were 215, 220 would have failed. I didnt do anything to it but dump a gallon of Denatured Alcohol in the tank with about 5 gallons of 91. BUT, after that, the truck stumbles a bit more at idle and seems to miss at idle significantly. I drove around and got most of the gas out of the tank before topping it off again, now im thinking it may be a cap and rotor issue or a bad plug. It drives fine under load but knocks a little at WOT, and the motor gives me more shaking and missing at idle than it did before I dumped the alky in the tank. If its not one thing its another, tomorrow its getting cap rotor and plugs. Do i try to find UR6s or do I use trusty ol' CR43TS plugs?

Just wondering if you unplugged the tan wire on the passenger side??
 

Jarnutt

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

I didnt unplug anything or change anything, went as is, with alky in the tank and I passed. As far as plugs go, Im running UR5s right now, it had CR44TS plugs in it when I bought it, The CR44s are a hot plug if Im not mistaken, I run CR43s in the buick, and the UR5s are the same thing as the Cr43s right? Why not run a colder plug like a UR6 on a mostly stock setup?
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

It's just a six said:
Just wondering if you unplugged the tan wire on the passenger side??

I tried to offer that advice as well...makes things a whole lot easier.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
I didnt unplug anything or change anything, went as is, with alky in the tank and I passed. As far as plugs go, Im running UR5s right now, it had CR44TS plugs in it when I bought it, The CR44s are a hot plug if Im not mistaken, I run CR43s in the buick, and the UR5s are the same thing as the Cr43s right? Why not run a colder plug like a UR6 on a mostly stock setup?

I know some people use the ur6's...i prefer the ur5's according to how the truck runs. If you want to run Delco plugs then the correct plug for a stock truck is Cr42ts.

these things are sensitive as hell to ignition products used on them...if you getting a bunch of problems, then the first thing I'd do is replace everything ignition related (tune up parts) with the correct ones.

Plugs: NGK UR5's
Wires: Taylor
Cap/rotor: Duralast (was conrad)
Fuel Filter: whatever
Check every vacuum hose and replace if stock.

Doing the above will solve 75% of syty problems.
 

Jarnutt

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Well I did the cap and rotor and put UR5s gapped to a tight 35 in there since you obviously know your stuff. It runs better, but still needs some tuning as far as fuel pressure, what should the static fuel pressure be? its at about 35psi with the vacuum line on right now, and has a little bit of knock from time to time at WOT and between the 1-2 shift, but more so when its hotter outside. That brings another question, is it normal for these trucks to have a small shake at idle? or just not idle smooth? I was told that the 90 degree V6 never idled smoothly compared to a newer V6, and my idle kind of bounces 25 or 50 RPM in both directions kind of like a lope, it doesnt shake but you can feel it in the ass of your pants while sitting in it. It runs strong otherwise, and doesnt sound like its missing except for an occasional miss while sitting at idle.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
Well I did the cap and rotor and put UR5s gapped to a tight 35 in there since you obviously know your stuff. It runs better, but still needs some tuning as far as fuel pressure, what should the static fuel pressure be? its at about 35psi with the vacuum line on right now, and has a little bit of knock from time to time at WOT and between the 1-2 shift, but more so when its hotter outside. That brings another question, is it normal for these trucks to have a small shake at idle? or just not idle smooth? I was told that the 90 degree V6 never idled smoothly compared to a newer V6, and my idle kind of bounces 25 or 50 RPM in both directions kind of like a lope, it doesnt shake but you can feel it in the ass of your pants while sitting in it. It runs strong otherwise, and doesnt sound like its missing except for an occasional miss while sitting at idle.

The idle...it tough to get the idle perfect. I wouldn't really meassure the quality of how your truck runs by the idle as it is not totally uncommon what you speak of. If you know you got the right parts in there, like you do now, then you can eliminate those as issues. Measue it by what a scan tool says like Datamaster or Tunerpro. The knock sucks and from my experience is often almost impossible to track down. I personally have replaced every fuel system and ignition part only to have the same issue. Alky, burning chips, you name it...knock sensor is a PITA, hence the 1-2 shift retard you get. The heads are prone to detonation as well. Fuel rains bang on the back of the motor and the KS picks it up. Downpipes bang, and whatever the hell else goes on. Sometimes the ECM is shit. I have gone through all this stuff and had some of the best tuners (Dig) work tune and it still doesn't work. Welcome to the world of sytys...imagine not knowing the most simple of things like tune up parts. No wonder why many run like shit and run 14's.

Persoanlly, to really get to know if you knock is real change the conditions in the combustion champer....such as race fuel, xylene, or alki...see if it does anything, should change it. Fuel pressure if based on what you chip is so what do you have? How much knock?

Roland taught me to measure my idle by how my antenna shakes :lol:

Some wierd ideas out there, but they tend to work. 25-50 rpm bounce isn't bad IMO.
 

Jarnutt

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Well the knock isnt terrible, Im pretty sure I can hear it though. Ive always read about what it sounds like to people that have problems with it on both buick and SYTY boards, and to them its like a tin can full of BBs quietly rattling under the hood, or other similar noise. I dont notice the truck pulling out any boost or a loss of acceleration when I hear it, so it may not even be knock, but rather my alternator or idler pulley or even AC compressor making racket. The Buick has a Caspers Knock gauge and an Audible alarm, and I almost never see it move, and have only once heard the alarm go off when my intake pipe came loose and the MAF ran really lean, really fast. So Im not even sure if what Im hearing is knock, but one can never be too careful. Im running the stock chip, but I have an adjustable FPR, and the fuel psi was around 45 with the vacuum line off when I bought it, I have since lowered it to 35 with the line off to go through emissions, but I dont even know if thats right, I cant seem to find any info on what the stock paramaters should be for anything.
 

It's just a six

Super Member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Fuel pressure should be around 40-42 psi .
Anything lower & there usually has a slight hesitation when gassing it.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
Well the knock isnt terrible, Im pretty sure I can hear it though. Ive always read about what it sounds like to people that have problems with it on both buick and SYTY boards, and to them its like a tin can full of BBs quietly rattling under the hood, or other similar noise. I dont notice the truck pulling out any boost or a loss of acceleration when I hear it, so it may not even be knock, but rather my alternator or idler pulley or even AC compressor making racket. The Buick has a Caspers Knock gauge and an Audible alarm, and I almost never see it move, and have only once heard the alarm go off when my intake pipe came loose and the MAF ran really lean, really fast. So Im not even sure if what Im hearing is knock, but one can never be too careful. Im running the stock chip, but I have an adjustable FPR, and the fuel psi was around 45 with the vacuum line off when I bought it, I have since lowered it to 35 with the line off to go through emissions, but I dont even know if thats right, I cant seem to find any info on what the stock paramaters should be for anything.

this is where a scan tool really is helpful. if your ECM picks it up, it'll retard the timing and you should by the seat of your pants feel the truck loose a ton of power. Just sort of falls on its face. doesn't matter if its real or not, the ECM can't determine that. does matter though if your motor is going to stay in one piece or not. If you can hear it with your own ears, stay out of it. I can get 18+ knock and hearing nothing...this is what I mean...anyone would hear that, but still kills my timing and power...hence why everyone hates false knock. Are you 100% sure its a stock chip?
 

JustBeachin

Plays well with others
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

It's just a six said:
Fuel pressure should be around 40-42 psi .
Anything lower & there usually has a slight hesitation when gassing it.

With the vacuum line off of the fpr. Or just turn on the fuel pump and measure it without removing it.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

JustBeachin said:
With the vacuum line off of the fpr. Or just turn on the fuel pump and measure it without removing it.

vacuum line off and pluged.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
Well the knock isnt terrible, Im pretty sure I can hear it though. Ive always read about what it sounds like to people that have problems with it on both buick and SYTY boards, and to them its like a tin can full of BBs quietly rattling under the hood, or other similar noise. I dont notice the truck pulling out any boost or a loss of acceleration when I hear it, so it may not even be knock, but rather my alternator or idler pulley or even AC compressor making racket. The Buick has a Caspers Knock gauge and an Audible alarm, and I almost never see it move, and have only once heard the alarm go off when my intake pipe came loose and the MAF ran really lean, really fast. So Im not even sure if what Im hearing is knock, but one can never be too careful. Im running the stock chip, but I have an adjustable FPR, and the fuel psi was around 45 with the vacuum line off when I bought it, I have since lowered it to 35 with the line off to go through emissions, but I dont even know if thats right, I cant seem to find any info on what the stock paramaters should be for anything.

Tons of good info on correct parts and can answer many of your questions. Just thought I would share.

http://www.sytyauthority.net/
 

Jarnutt

New member
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Its all entirely stock, Im 99.9% sure of it. The guy I bought it off of was a real stickler about that stuff, paying the stealership out the ass for service, even paid the dealership $800 for a new ECU when they told him his went bad a couple years back, I have the reciept for that too. He didnt race it, his wife drove it to work every day since september of 1995 when they bought it, til 2006 when I bought it, the miles reflect that. I know what it feels like when you get your timing pulled if the knock sensor hears knock, and mine doesnt do that, either the solonoid isnt working, or its not knock im hearing, I guess tomorrow Ill hook it up to a scan tool and give it hell.
 

SeattleSy#1255

Category 5 Conservative
Re: Failed Emissions today, BAD!

Jarnutt said:
Its all entirely stock, Im 99.9% sure of it. The guy I bought it off of was a real stickler about that stuff, paying the stealership out the ass for service, even paid the dealership $800 for a new ECU when they told him his went bad a couple years back, I have the reciept for that too. He didnt race it, his wife drove it to work every day since september of 1995 when they bought it, til 2006 when I bought it, the miles reflect that. I know what it feels like when you get your timing pulled if the knock sensor hears knock, and mine doesnt do that, either the solonoid isnt working, or its not knock im hearing, I guess tomorrow Ill hook it up to a scan tool and give it hell.

let us know what you find.
 
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