Can I use coilovers w/ stock control arms ?
- Thread starter MRKING
- Start date
MRKING
New Parts for Old Trucks
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Thats what I am holding out for . If I dont find one by next week , I am just going to get the ones everyone else uses . If I have to notch something , oh well .
There will be lots of pictures .
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Thats what I am holding out for . If I dont find one by next week , I am just going to get the ones everyone else uses . If I have to notch something , oh well .
There will be lots of pictures .
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I can't thank you enough for doing this.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I can't thank you enough for doing this.
warmpancakes
New member
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
they are Konis if I remember correctaly
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
they are Konis if I remember correctaly
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I haven't found a KONI that looks like that. The big thing is gonna be the springs and getting them right so the truck rides correctly and doesn't bottom out and hit the cladding.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I haven't found a KONI that looks like that. The big thing is gonna be the springs and getting them right so the truck rides correctly and doesn't bottom out and hit the cladding.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Wait. Check this out. This may be it.
http://www.koni.com/_racing/_damper_series/2812/2812.html
Then go down to page 4 in this document:
http://www.koni-na.com/pdfcatalogs/KONIMotosportCatalog.pdf
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Wait. Check this out. This may be it.
http://www.koni.com/_racing/_damper_series/2812/2812.html
Then go down to page 4 in this document:
http://www.koni-na.com/pdfcatalogs/KONIMotosportCatalog.pdf
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I wonder if these universal koni's would fit our trucks better (i.e. not need spacers)
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...SPA1&N=700+400387+4294848303+115&autoview=sku
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I wonder if these universal koni's would fit our trucks better (i.e. not need spacers)
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...SPA1&N=700+400387+4294848303+115&autoview=sku
dgoodhue
BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I have no idea about the stock arms, but I imagine they need all the clearance as pssoible. For the other coilover setup, 2.5" can fit but it makes everything really tight (read PIA to setup) PEP used 2.5 with Bilsteins. The 2.25" is what RPM & JS used and makes a huge difference in terms of clearance. I think Dunstan stuff was 2" and is probably the only chance on might have fitting the stock a-arms. In using those with the stock arms, you really need to check the clearance at the bottom of the shock for the driveshaft clearance and where the upper A-arm dips down through the range of motion of the suspension. (ie disconnect the torsion bar)
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I have no idea about the stock arms, but I imagine they need all the clearance as pssoible. For the other coilover setup, 2.5" can fit but it makes everything really tight (read PIA to setup) PEP used 2.5 with Bilsteins. The 2.25" is what RPM & JS used and makes a huge difference in terms of clearance. I think Dunstan stuff was 2" and is probably the only chance on might have fitting the stock a-arms. In using those with the stock arms, you really need to check the clearance at the bottom of the shock for the driveshaft clearance and where the upper A-arm dips down through the range of motion of the suspension. (ie disconnect the torsion bar)
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
That link I put up uses a 2" ID spring.
Here's some quotes from King:
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
That link I put up uses a 2" ID spring.
Here's some quotes from King:
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
OK.
Called Koni.
2812's are out. Those are custom buit at $900 each.
8212 series CONNOT be inverted because it has a twin tube setup. So those are out. Those are the ones they sell to Jeggs and Summit.
3012 Can be inverter and run about $450 each but uses a 2.25" ID coil spring. These are used in the indy pro series vehicles.
Gentleman highly recommended the oval track series.
AKA "30 series". For example a part number would be 30-5325. These can be inverted. The shock has to be fully extended and the tip rotated for adjustment but these only run about $150 each and are well durable enough to be used on a daily driven setup.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
OK.
Called Koni.
2812's are out. Those are custom buit at $900 each.
8212 series CONNOT be inverted because it has a twin tube setup. So those are out. Those are the ones they sell to Jeggs and Summit.
3012 Can be inverter and run about $450 each but uses a 2.25" ID coil spring. These are used in the indy pro series vehicles.
Gentleman highly recommended the oval track series.
AKA "30 series". For example a part number would be 30-5325. These can be inverted. The shock has to be fully extended and the tip rotated for adjustment but these only run about $150 each and are well durable enough to be used on a daily driven setup.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I didn't mean to kill the progress. I just wanted to share what I found out from Koni. They don't carry springs. They recommended Eibach or Hypercoil for the springs.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I didn't mean to kill the progress. I just wanted to share what I found out from Koni. They don't carry springs. They recommended Eibach or Hypercoil for the springs.
'JustDreamin'
Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
It's ok, George....
It's good to know what Koni has available.
Thomas Edison was asked, how did he deal with the amount of failures he experienced while searching for a suitable filament for the light bulb (in the 1000's of try's). Edison's response: They're not failures. We successfully learned that material didn't work, and we don't need to try that particular combination again. I'm not sure that I could be that overwhelmingly positive.
I'm going to spend some time today looking at the QA1 catalog. They look to be reasonably priced, rebuildable / tuneable, but what do I know.
'JustDreamin'
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
It's ok, George....
It's good to know what Koni has available.
Thomas Edison was asked, how did he deal with the amount of failures he experienced while searching for a suitable filament for the light bulb (in the 1000's of try's). Edison's response: They're not failures. We successfully learned that material didn't work, and we don't need to try that particular combination again. I'm not sure that I could be that overwhelmingly positive.
I'm going to spend some time today looking at the QA1 catalog. They look to be reasonably priced, rebuildable / tuneable, but what do I know.
'JustDreamin'
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Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
just out of curosity???? with afco being mostly a circle track shock would you guys consider using them?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
just out of curosity???? with afco being mostly a circle track shock would you guys consider using them?
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ashman
------
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
this site has the Koni 30-5325 on sale for $115
http://konishocks.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/32601/30-5325
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
this site has the Koni 30-5325 on sale for $115
http://konishocks.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/32601/30-5325
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Are there a lot of problems with the Koni's?
I started looking them up because of the physical characteristics that they have available online. I'm ready to give it a try, I just don't know if King will be able to find part numbers for what he's got.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Are there a lot of problems with the Koni's?
I started looking them up because of the physical characteristics that they have available online. I'm ready to give it a try, I just don't know if King will be able to find part numbers for what he's got.
JustDreamin said:
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Well. Is there something wrong with Koni? If there is, let me know so I can look at another brand to gather info on. Was it a certain part number that was no good?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Well. Is there something wrong with Koni? If there is, let me know so I can look at another brand to gather info on. Was it a certain part number that was no good?
JustDreamin said:
'JustDreamin'
Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I don't know of anything wrong with Koni....In fact, there is a normal set of Koni's on my truck right now. I will say that having to pull the shock and rotate to adjust is a real bugg'r on the fronts, since I had to wire them closed (pushed them closed and wired them with .030 MIG wire to keep them closed) in order to install them. Otherwise, they would just extend open and they weren't going in that way.
From your research, the pickings from Koni that will do the job are few. The 30 series does sound like it'll work, most of the others have issues (too much $$$, can't be inverted, too big, etc). Don't have any info on the 30 series. Guess I ought to look.
I spent a little time looking at AFCO's website. They have a bunch of offerings, but their website doesn't really give as much info as one would desire (can you mount them upside down?, are these streetable?, etc). They've got some pretty nice shocks on there though (not sure where I'd put the reservoir on those remote reservoir T2's, but since I don't have the $650 each, I'm ruling them out anyway).
QA1's website has some more info. There are a number of small body shocks, and most will say whether they can be run inverted or not, and a bunch of other info. Not real sure how streetable they are, however. But if they're fully rebuildable, and reasonably priced to start with, then maybe "freshening up" shocks every year or two would be acceptable for a daily driven truck.
I think one of the things that should be worked through is the required spring rate. 600 lbs looks like the limit for off-the-shelf 1 7/8" ID springs. So, if over 600lb rate is required to hold the nose up and give decent ride, I'd say that this is a no-go. I guess if necessary, one could have custom springs made (with higher rates or even variable rates) but that might get to be tricky and potentially expensive.
Another thing to consider is spring rate vs effective spring rate of the sway bar, and where to put the stiffness in the system. I don't know all that much about suspension design, but some of what I've seen is that on a higher performance car, you end up with stiffer springs and softer sway bars (most of the body roll is controlled with the spring, not the sway bar). But then you may end up with excessive ride harshness because of springs that are the appropriate stiffness for performance, but way to stiff to be compliant. Like I said, I don't know all that much about suspension design, but I know enough to be concerned about doing it right.
And my Edison quote was more in reference to the Koni's that took themselves out of contention. Too expensive, can't run upside down, too big.....This won't work, that won't work, that won't work either. Its easy to get down. But Edison had such a "out there" perspective, relative to the rest of the world. Wasn't really trying to imply anything about Koni, just that I expect we're going to consider a bunch of stuff, alot of it will be ruled out for one reason or another, and that we shouldn't get down just because we learned what won't work.
'JustDreamin'
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I don't know of anything wrong with Koni....In fact, there is a normal set of Koni's on my truck right now. I will say that having to pull the shock and rotate to adjust is a real bugg'r on the fronts, since I had to wire them closed (pushed them closed and wired them with .030 MIG wire to keep them closed) in order to install them. Otherwise, they would just extend open and they weren't going in that way.
From your research, the pickings from Koni that will do the job are few. The 30 series does sound like it'll work, most of the others have issues (too much $$$, can't be inverted, too big, etc). Don't have any info on the 30 series. Guess I ought to look.
I spent a little time looking at AFCO's website. They have a bunch of offerings, but their website doesn't really give as much info as one would desire (can you mount them upside down?, are these streetable?, etc). They've got some pretty nice shocks on there though (not sure where I'd put the reservoir on those remote reservoir T2's, but since I don't have the $650 each, I'm ruling them out anyway).
QA1's website has some more info. There are a number of small body shocks, and most will say whether they can be run inverted or not, and a bunch of other info. Not real sure how streetable they are, however. But if they're fully rebuildable, and reasonably priced to start with, then maybe "freshening up" shocks every year or two would be acceptable for a daily driven truck.
I think one of the things that should be worked through is the required spring rate. 600 lbs looks like the limit for off-the-shelf 1 7/8" ID springs. So, if over 600lb rate is required to hold the nose up and give decent ride, I'd say that this is a no-go. I guess if necessary, one could have custom springs made (with higher rates or even variable rates) but that might get to be tricky and potentially expensive.
Another thing to consider is spring rate vs effective spring rate of the sway bar, and where to put the stiffness in the system. I don't know all that much about suspension design, but some of what I've seen is that on a higher performance car, you end up with stiffer springs and softer sway bars (most of the body roll is controlled with the spring, not the sway bar). But then you may end up with excessive ride harshness because of springs that are the appropriate stiffness for performance, but way to stiff to be compliant. Like I said, I don't know all that much about suspension design, but I know enough to be concerned about doing it right.
And my Edison quote was more in reference to the Koni's that took themselves out of contention. Too expensive, can't run upside down, too big.....This won't work, that won't work, that won't work either. Its easy to get down. But Edison had such a "out there" perspective, relative to the rest of the world. Wasn't really trying to imply anything about Koni, just that I expect we're going to consider a bunch of stuff, alot of it will be ruled out for one reason or another, and that we shouldn't get down just because we learned what won't work.
'JustDreamin'
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I wanna hang out with you and get drunk. :tup: Next nats its manditory.
Re: Can I use them like this if they fit ?
I wanna hang out with you and get drunk. :tup: Next nats its manditory.