Gas in the oil

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

Ok, just came in from from the garage. I compression tested the motor with a cheap harbor freight compression tester. 1,3,4,5 are all 118-120, 2 and 6 are are about 115.

I put a hand vacuum pump on all the vacuum lines. Everything holds 20hg except the fuel reg. the fuel reg will pump up to 20 and slow bleed off. Not immediately but fairly quickly.


While cranking the motor with a hand held starter switch I could shine a light into the cylinders better while cranking. #4 was puffing moisture but it didn't smell like fuel. Im really hoping it's not antifreeze. Motor is fresh and has cometic gaskets. Right now I feel so defeated with this truck. Oil is not milky it's definitely light brown and smells like fuel. I don't even know what to do now

 

[atkonkler]

Re: Gas in the oil

Bring the oil to a local testing faculty that semi - drivers utilize to test oil...IMO....that's what I'd do before I condemned the heads. ..

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

Bring the oil to a local testing faculty that semi - drivers utilize to test oil...IMO....that's what I'd do before I condemned the heads. ..

I'll have to see if I can find a place.




Compression test was with the engine cold and all 6 plugs out. Forgot to mention that

 

[Don W.]

Re: Gas in the oil

You can do a leak down test but don't use the Harbor freight tool. I can't help but think that something else is going on. Before you waste money on an oil test, if you can even find someone local, change out the dist as many have suggested. Compression testing, oil testing, have nothing to do with haywire ECM action on start up.

Antifreeze? Check the rad. Is it down from the last time you looked?

When you tested the vac lines did you test the FPR line by removing it from the back of the manifold? Reason I ask is the MAP sensor is also on that line (and nothing else BTW) so you could, in theory, have a leak there. That line should hold. Check it again with fuel pressure up. Isolate the FPR from MAP sensor and check again.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

You can do a leak down test but don't use the Harbor freight tool. I can't help but think that something else is going on. Before you waste money on an oil test, if you can even find someone local, change out the dist as many have suggested. Compression testing, oil testing, have nothing to do with haywire ECM action on start up.

Antifreeze? Check the rad. Is it down from the last time you looked?

When you tested the vac lines did you test the FPR line by removing it from the back of the manifold? Reason I ask is the MAP sensor is also on that line (and nothing else BTW) so you could, in theory, have a leak there. That line should hold. Check it again with fuel pressure up. Isolate the FPR from MAP sensor and check again.

I checked the map and afpr separate. The map held no problem, the afpr leaked down with with 40psi fuel pressure at the rail.


I'm going to leak down test number 4 and see if the coolant bubbles with the cylinder pressurized but I think I'm going to be pulling a head off. I pressurized the radiator but didn't see any leaking or pressure drop.


The last time I drove the truck the coolant level got low but I assumed I just had air in the system since I changed radiators. Guess not... . That's a separate issue for another day.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php They will send you the bottle and shipping container for free. The test is $25.00. Results in about a week.



118-125 is low. Should be 145 +/- ~5. They're all fairly even, so you may indeed just have a shitty gauge.



It's probably leaking around the adjusting screw. If you have a radiator pressure checker, try putting pressure on the regulator, and putting a soapy solution around the screw and locking nut and watching for bubbles. If this is what it is, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I will try that Dave. And as far as compression numbers they seem way low to me as well. That's why i said it was a cheap harbor freight gauge. The engine was also cold so that will drop compression a touch. The fact that they're all pretty close makes me think the gauge is just inaccurate but I'm not worried. i I'm going to leak down test it this week

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Gas in the oil

How did you set your valve lash?

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: Gas in the oil

Nolan stopped tuning and is almost impossible to get a response from (last I tried). I have everyhing to go code59 I'm just not educated enough in tuning yet to start doing my own tunes.



totally agree. In the past I've vac tested the regualtor with a hand pump and it held 20hg no problem. I will try that again tonight.

also I have -6 braided line from the tank to the rails so pinching off a line would be a problem. That is something I wanted to do though to isolate the bleed off in pressure..



I'm thinking the fact that the truck was tuned 18hg at idle and now idles around 10hg that it's just entirely too fat at idle. This thought just came to me as it's been a few years since it was tuned.

Nolan works for Moretto Motorsports and they do tuning. They still do work on sytys. Why wouldn't they want to? Maybe he just doesn't have free(not at work) time to do it. Have you tried contacting him there?

 

[T-Bone]

Re: Gas in the oil

Oil is not milky it's definitely light brown and smells like fuel. I don't even know what to do now

I know frustration can set in real quick during issues like this but non-combustionable cylinder liquid MUST either burn up with fuel OR be directed elsewhere. Is your inner exhaust pipe wet? If your oil is not milky, AF is not leaking into it so it "could" pass through the exhaust valve while running and you would see signs of it out the pipe with a distinct smell but the critical issue is fuel in the oil.

Gasoline in oil is the result of excess fuel in the cylinder being forced past the rings while the piston is rising for combustion and eventually, rods will bend or a head lift if the issue persists. I know injectors are not cheap but you would be wise to have them tested. When my Sy leaked fuel like a capsized tanker in the pacific, the engine had 800 miles on it. The issue was not injector failure (faulty injector) but rather my lack of driving the truck which resulted in a stuck injector.

Hang in there...you'll narrow it down. I don't have your patience, thus the reason my Sy was trailered to a performance machine shop for diagnosis and repair.

P.S. - Sorry for advising you a bunch of what you probably already know at this point.

 

[RealFastV6]

Re: Gas in the oil

118-125 is low. Should be 145 +/- ~5. They're all fairly even, so you may indeed just have a shitty gauge.

With a 422 Cam in the truck, you're not going to have the same compression check numbers as a stock cam. I'm suprised this isn't in the SyTy supplement.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Gas in the oil

IMO it has to be either running excessively rich, leaking injector or bad fpr diaphragm to end up with that much fuel in the oil.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

How did you set your valve lash?

They're still set from the machine shop that assembled the motor. I checked them all when I put new valve cover gaskets on it and they were good

Nolan works for Moretto Motorsports and they do tuning. They still do work on sytys. Why wouldn't they want to? Maybe he just doesn't have free(not at work) time to do it. Have you tried contacting him there?

Yes I have talked to Nolan. He doesn't tune in his free time any more even though i paid him years ago. He says he still does his old customer's tunes but when I send him stuff I rarely get anything back. I have everything to tune code 59 myself just have to do it.

IMO it has to be either running excessively rich, leaking injector or bad fpr diaphragm to end up with that much fuel in the oil.

I'm not seeing a leaking injector (fuel in the cylinder) like I thought I would. It's definitely running rich as all the plugs show pig rich. I ordered a replacement diaphragm for the afpr just because it's cheap and easy.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

I know frustration can set in real quick during issues like this but non-combustionable cylinder liquid MUST either burn up with fuel OR be directed elsewhere. Is your inner exhaust pipe wet? If your oil is not milky, AF is not leaking into it so it "could" pass through the exhaust valve while running and you would see signs of it out the pipe with a distinct smell but the critical issue is fuel in the oil.

Gasoline in oil is the result of excess fuel in the cylinder being forced past the rings while the piston is rising for combustion and eventually, rods will bend or a head lift if the issue persists. I know injectors are not cheap but you would be wise to have them tested. When my Sy leaked fuel like a capsized tanker in the pacific, the engine had 800 miles on it. The issue was not injector failure (faulty injector) but rather my lack of driving the truck which resulted in a stuck injector.

Hang in there...you'll narrow it down. I don't have your patience, thus the reason my Sy was trailered to a performance machine shop for diagnosis and repair.

P.S. - Sorry for advising you a bunch of what you probably already know at this point.

Thanks. I refuse to give up. I think there's an injector service place local that I can take the injectors to have serviced. It's possible they got dirty from sitting, lack of driving, and levels in the tank.

As far as smoke or moisture out the exhaust. Always assumed it was a normal amount since the truck sits in the garage and doesn't start much. I assumed it was just moisture build up. I'm going to dig more into that this week.

 

[e95 Ty]

Re: Gas in the oil

Thanks. I refuse to give up. I think there's an injector service place local that I can take the injectors to have serviced. It's possible they got dirty from sitting, lack of driving, and levels in the tank.

As far as smoke or moisture out the exhaust. Always assumed it was a normal amount since the truck sits in the garage and doesn't start much. I assumed it was just moisture build up. I'm going to dig more into that this week.

hurstinjectorservice.com

If you need a trustworthy guy to check out your injectors give him a shot. His name is paul and has done a bunch of stuff for me over the years..You would have to ship to him, but he's a trustworthy guy and very thorough..

I'm sure you will get it sorted out before spring. Possibly a combination of a few different things going on..

Even if it's not the main problem, that tune needs to be addressed as well.

 

[RealFastV6]

Re: Gas in the oil

I'm sure you will get it sorted out before spring. Possibly a combination of a few different things going on..

Even if it's not the main problem, that tune needs to be addressed as well.

This is probably what's really going on.

A combination of 2-3 issues, not 1. Maybe injectors causing the gas in the oil. Maybe tune alone causing the hot restart problems.

Either way always better to follow the symptoms, and confirm suspicions than to look at things with a confirmation bias and just buy \ replace parts at random assuming one symptom is caused by another. This is all in the SyTy supplement btw.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

There's "injector doctor" not too far from me. I may just hand deliver them and let them check them for me.


As for the oil I may just go ahead and have it tested to make sure it is what I think it is.

 

[Snoman002]

Re: Gas in the oil

I vote injector.

I understand you didn't have gas in the cylinder, but with that low of compression it could easily be leaking by the rings and into the crankcase. What with 500 miles on a new motor, and driven infrequently, I wouldn't be surprised to hear the rings hadn't broken in yet, or hadn't broken in properly. Plus, it takes a LOT, like a LOT, of fuel to wash down the cylinders while the engine is running. I would expect lots of black smoke, or distinctly noticeable anyways, if that were happening.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

Well I just pressurized number 4 cylinder (where I thought I had coolant) and boom, pushed coolant out the radiator cap. Well looks like I'll be pulling heads and putting this issue on the back burner. Or maybe it's coolant in the oil and I'm idiot. I've seen milky oil before and mine doesn't look milky and smells like gas. Owell time to pull a head.... Or start a big fire and call Grundy insurance.

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Gas in the oil

I vote injector.

I understand you didn't have gas in the cylinder, but with that low of compression it could easily be leaking by the rings and into the crankcase. What with 500 miles on a new motor, and driven infrequently, I wouldn't be surprised to hear the rings hadn't broken in yet, or hadn't broken in properly. Plus, it takes a LOT, like a LOT, of fuel to wash down the cylinders while the engine is running. I would expect lots of black smoke, or distinctly noticeable anyways, if that were happening.

I don't trust the compression gauge. I was just looking for consistency between all 6 and I got that. I don't believe there's only 120 psi per cylinder.

 

[Syclone#892]

Re: Gas in the oil

Just an FYI, check to see if you have a fabco around you. We get our oil sample kits there for $12 and they are postage prepaid.

I agree with Dave P that I doubt the fpr could leak that much fuel, I think it's the ecm keeping the injectors open while cranking so I would try a different dist. Especially now since you are taking it out anyway to do the headgaskets.
Good luck I hope it turns out great for you