Intercooler Water Temperature

Bill Z

Donating Member
Intercooler Water Temperature

1. Can anyone tell me the normal operating temperature range for the water in the intercooler?

I think that everyone will agree that cooler is better for better performance. If that is true, shouldn’t it be advantageous to monitor water temperature in the intercooler and make modifications to reduce this temperature?

2. Does anyone have some suggestions as to where I can get an electrical temperature gauge that goes below 100 degrees F?

3. Has anyone done significant work in this area besides keeping the pump going all of the time?
 

Daron

Active member
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

This is prolly more suited to the "Tech Talk" forum..

Operating temps vary due to many factors. Just a few include pump performance, Coolant mixture percentage of water/anti-freeze, CCHE performance (fans, scoops etc..) , boost levels ( higher levels on stock turbo = heat) and ambiant temperatures.

I have done many different configurations, and believe the jabsco pump, and some fans on the CCHE is the way to go...
 

Ian Turgeon

Cascading Inspiration
daily differences:
outside temp
weather
running time
engine load
wind
mph

heat exhangers, pumps, scoops fans, routing, heat shields all change things a bit

temps very greatly depending on where I am in the city and what kind of driving Im doing. On a 80-85 degree day generally my temps stay between 90-110 (this is at its hottest point before entering a cche.

I'll have to start paying attention and doing some statistical data on the way to work and home...


there are a few digital gauges from summit that will work
 

doomdead

New member
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

Bill Z said:
2. Does anyone have some suggestions as to where I can get an electrical temperature gauge that goes below 100 degrees F?
quote]

Datamaster will show you what the Intake Temps are at. Could give you a fair idea on the water temp. Of course IAC Temps are what your after right? Not necessarily the water.
 

KGB Pilot125

New member
got a autometer electrical water gauge that goes from 60-210 works pretty well with the ic hotwires and stock scoop on a 50-60 degree days I would see about 70 ish temps after a WOT blast temps would climb to aobut 90-100 after siting a while is where it got hot 130 or so.

I have another gauge but they are spendy over 200 bucks if I remember right.
 

Bill Z

Donating Member
Intercooler Water Temperature

You guys have brought up some interesting ideas and thoughts.

I figured that the temp should be well below 100 degrees F. providing the ambient temp was low. I also figured that the more you cooled down the intercooler water the cooler you could get the boosted air.

The confusion was when some of the guys were talking about the replacement caps for the intercooler. They were suggesting caps with high pressures over ones with little. If the water temp doesn't approach 200 degrees, I figure any cap will work since the cap is on the low pressure side of the intercooler side.

I noticed that the intercooler pump only runs at boost (unless you redesign the circuit). This would mean that on initial boost, you do not get the cooler air and it would take time to recover. What I want to prove is that the built up heat in the intercooler will not be displaced sufficiently (if at all) by the time you let off of the turbo.

One of the forums is talking about fresh air cooling after market systems. I was wondering if they work better than the water cooling that comes with our Tys.

I have been told that the cheapest and easiest way to reduce temp in the plenum is with nitrous. This sounds like great fun but I think that I am going to take the challenge of working on the water.

Does anyone have the model number of the autometer electrical water guage?

Great talking to you guys and much appreciated.
 

doomdead

New member
One of the first mods that you do to a SyTy is hotwire the IC pump to a switch.... Mines always on, whenever the ignition is on, unless im working under the hood and need the ign on, i just shut off the switch. That way at idle the water is moving, and when running its getting chilled.

The easiest way to reduce temps is hotwiring your ic pump... its VERY simple too.

The other/addition mod you can do, which is suggested (i have yet to do it) is replace the stock IC pump with a newer higher pressure pump. I've heard the shurflo is good, as well as the jabasco... one of those bolts right up, the other takes some work.
I also heard you can get a water pump out of a RV - that would be the cheapest. I -might- do that seeing as my IC pump is 95% dead.
 

Bill Z

Donating Member
Intercooler Water Temperature

My Ty already had the stock pump replaced with a jabasco pump but no switch. I was wondering about the life expectancy of the pump where it runs all of the time the ignition is on. I was thinking of an arming kind of switch like you described. Since I can not see into the future, maybe full on is the best way to go.

I just had a thought! How about 6 or 9 volts to the pump full time and full 12 to 14 volts under boost. I wonder if this setup will increase pump life.

Has anyone tried changing the intercooler radiator or putting cooling fans on it? I would think that these mods would more expensive than any gain that you might have. However, I might look into it.

Has anyone thought about other liquid coolants other than antifreeze and water?

Again, Thanks for the response and the input.
 

Daron

Active member
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

Bill Z said:
My Ty already had the stock pump replaced with a jabasco pump but no switch. I was wondering about the life expectancy of the pump where it runs all of the time the ignition is on. I was thinking of an arming kind of switch like you described. Since I can not see into the future, maybe full on is the best way to go.

I just had a thought! How about 6 or 9 volts to the pump full time and full 12 to 14 volts under boost. I wonder if this setup will increase pump life.

Has anyone tried changing the intercooler radiator or putting cooling fans on it? I would think that these mods would more expensive than any gain that you might have. However, I might look into it.

Has anyone thought about other liquid coolants other than antifreeze and water?

Again, Thanks for the response and the input.

Did you not read my previous post? I mention fans on the CCHE as the way to go.

We have used heater cores for Aux CCHE's, though I prefer a motorcycle radiator with a built in fan for an Aux cche.

I did have great luck with an CCHE scoop, the difference in temps with one and without were dramatic.

Dont worry about pump life, I ran mine all the time in the Sy for 5 plus years. Our typhoon still has the stock pump and it is hot wired. You want the coolant circulating as fast as possible, dont like the voltage reduction thought.

You can use water and water wetter in the summer for best heat transfer.

Getting the CAC working the best you can is only part of the equation.
 

myclone

Donating Member
I'll give you props on wanting to make the water to air work but I can tell you that all the fast trucks I know of have switched to an air to air. That being said I personally am trying to take the stock W/A as far is it will go due to being king of budget racing and for the challenge of doing it.

Couple of things to keep in mind with a water to air. Water is very dense and its thermal conduction is very slow. What I mean is it takes a long time to remove heat from water once its hot or vice versa. That being so IMO turning on the IC pump wont do you much good as you will only remove a minimal amount of heat before you go WOT and the water starts to heat up again. Also, slowing the pump down may prolong its bearing life but then again it will work harder/draw more current which will make the pump run hot possibly killing it quicker than running it all the time. IMO its makes more sense to replace a pump that runs 100% of the time every ~40k miles than to replace one that has like new bearings but has been over heated/burned up electrically every ~20k miles.

Here is some pics that may give you an idea of what it takes to get a mostly stock syclone in the 11s with outside air temps in the mid 80s and high humidity (the nats last year).

Upper IC: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/acg.jpg

You will note that the IC has been wrapped in thermal reflective material as well as the turbo to upper IC pipe. A second layer of thermal material was installed over the first on the bottom surface of the upper IC for extra insulation from the DP/turbo (cant see it in the pic). Also a second layer was wrapped around the silicone connector for the pipe to IC. Not visible in the pic but prolly equally important (IMO) is the fact that I removed the two support braces that are attached to the IC and exhuast manifold. I also removed the last bracket that attaches to the intake and made one that is two seperate pieces seperated by a phenolic spacer to minimize heat transfer from the intake. I did all the IC covering in my living room floor with material I bought from JEGS and some good weather stripping cement to hold it on. I prolly only have ~$50 in the material/adhesive and had plenty left over for other projects.

Also note that the stock steel IC water lines were removed and replaced with 3/4" heater hose that are covered with heat reflective sheathing and ran thorugh the passenger fender well, snaked around the heater box, and finally into the back of the IC. What you cant see is the jabsco pump that is mounted in the stock location is also wrapped with heat reflective material as well as the pump end of the set up. The only thing that isnt is the end of the pump motor that ISNT attached to the pump as there are tiny holes in the motors end plate that I wanted to leave exposed so any air could get in there and cool it somewhat.

Upper IC rear: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/ach.jpg

One major thing to note here. Notice how the lines have a nice curve to them? I tried just attaching the ends of the hoses there but once they got warm from under hood heat they kinked restricting water flow. I went to Home Depot and pick up a couple of sink faucet kits that had extra long water "spouts" that were a real tight radius. I could have went with 90 deg elbows but water (like air) doesnt like abrubt changes in direction. Anyway I cut up the faucet "spouts" the right length to make the transition from the hose to the IC in a nice arc that water would have an enjoyable time traveling. Lastly you'll note that I have heat reflective wrap covering every joint/clamp/inch of hose. It may not be show worthy but it keeps the heat out in the best manner IMO.

IC relay mod: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/aci.jpg

This is what you need to do to get the pump to run all the time for the reasons discussed above. See that yellow wire that loops around and is attached to the bolt to the right of the two relays? That yellow wire needs to be grounded so the pump runs when the ignition is switched on. You could easily put a switch in the circuit to run it when you wanted very easily and its something I need to do for cool down in the pits but have never gotten around to doing it yet.

Auxillary heat exchanger: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/acj.jpg

This is just an aluminum ford truck heater core I found while scrounging in the bone yard one day. I got it for free, sand blasted it, painted the end tanks gloss black, and had a bud TIG weld a couple of brackets on it so I could attach it to the radiator core support without drilling any holes. I was able to use existing holes that GM put there for some reason.

Through grille view of the above aux IC: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/ack.jpg

Stock lower IC: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/acl.jpg

The above and next pic are of a STOCK syty lower heat exchanger. Two things to note in the above pic. One is the fact that I sand blasted it (using LOW pressure) to remove all the black paint that GM puts on it that holds in heat. Next is the scoop that is under it. This scoop is the "$10 IC mod" thats in the archives. It grabs a LOT of air at speed (note the sagging in the middle. It was flat when first installed). Unfortunately it doesnt do diddley when your in the staging lanes or stuck in traffic.

Lower IC 2: http://www.ridetillyoudieinc.com/albums/dr-jeckel-and-mr-hyde/acm.jpg

Only one thing to really note here other than the lack of black paint.... I spent every bit of ~7hrs just straightening the fins in the lower IC to allow as much air to flow through as much surface area as possible (tough to see real good in this angle). Also, you would not believe how many bug carcasses and small rocks I dug out of DEEP inside the fins that were blocking any air flow in that particular pair of fins. I bet I removed 8oz of rocks/dead bodies.

The only other thing I know of to really help a stock system out is using some water wetter in the coolant mix, an ice chest with a heat exchange mounted in it (not really practicle for a street vehicle), and/or a fan mounted on the back of the stock lower IC.
 

KGB Pilot125

New member
3569.jpg


126 from summit PN ATM-3569
 
cyberdyne has a digital led gage goes down to 70 degrees in case u like it - cheaper then the automoeter if yer cheap.
i run 15 gallon tank in the bed, bed mounted pump, wrapped intercooler itself in thermotec, rerouted lines, etc.
four motorcycle radiators with fans bed mounted onthe return side of the tank as well.
i see cruise temps about 10-15 degrees over ambient, much more if sitting in traffic.
under full load, temps actaully stay fairly stable due to the large reserve tank.
heat soak is still the issue.
air/air is better, but like u, i am stubborn.
i dont think my setup for air/water could be improived upon regardless, and i dunno how cost effective it is to really go nuts to keep air/water.....
 

SY2932

Administrator
If constant IC pump operation is a "problem" for you, the ultimate chip enables the IC pump at 60 degrees F. Plus a few other things that are worthwhile :D .

I have Jim Longwith's "blade of death" on my syclone and it keeps my IC cool to the touch even after 2 hour plus highway trips. On the rare occasions when I drive my truck in the winter, I have seen IC temperatures of 32 degrees F.

I monitor my IC temperatures via a custom made barbed fitting that I spliced into the 3/4" heater hose. I have the SPA Design dual readout gauges for my boost, transmission temperature, IC temperature and fuel pressure.

Mike Campbell
 

Bill Z

Donating Member
Intercooler Water Temperature

Thanks all. This is really great stuff. I got some work cut out for me. I figured that there were some guys out there that had thought this out.

Again: Thanks a bunch (All of you guys).
 

Desmofan

New member
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

I notice nobody seems to talk about the ATR aux IC kit (which I was about to buy), but seem to roll their own..why? Is it the $, or is the ATR kit overkill for a stock Sy? For anybody that has one, is that big ass fender mounted pump loud in the cab? Any issues?

TIA,

nOOb
Syclone #337
 

critical

meltdown
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

I followed along with the archives aritcle w/the sureflo install. Only I installed an oil cooler after the heat exchanger. Mounted behind the grille. Twice the cooling! What a difference that made. Combined w/ the plastic scoop [also in the archives] my IC is always cold. Should mension the pump is always on [switched].
 

ashman

------
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

Anyone considered moving the I/C pump away from the CCHE, say, to the fenderwell?
 

critical

meltdown
Re: Intercooler Water Temperature

For one, ATR is mighty proud of their products. Their prices are quite steep. I think installing the ic pump on the bottom most part of the system reduces the chance of having an air lock. And the pump is always primed. The factory ic is kind of a bad design, or at least the ic location is. An aftermarket ic modeled after the origional, and kept in the same location may not gain much. Moving the ic farther toward the fender away from heat, may do something good. {a/c delete?]
 
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